Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Murders of Kylen Schulte and Crystal Turner

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. ✗plicit 23:46, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Murders of Kylen Schulte and Crystal Turner[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

References and web search don't indicate this rises above routine coverage. Star Garnet (talk) 16:52, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Star Garnet (talk) 16:52, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:07, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Utah-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:07, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 18:29, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep If this case had been routine, it would not have been receiving the sustained national [1] and international [2] coverage that it has been getting, per WP:GEOSCOPE. There has been WP:DEPTH of coverage in this case, partly due to the fact that the event occurred in the same time and place as the events surrounding the killing of Gabby Petito, leading to considerable speculation about who the perpetrator/s might be. By all accounts, the event was highly unusual for the location in which it happened. StonyBrook (talk) 17:06, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Those are passing coverage (classic WP:PRIMARYNEWS), and any sustained coverage in this case is routine coverage of the stages of a crime investigation. WP:DEPTH specifically discourages using articles like the Independent one (and the vast majority of possible sources for this event), noting similarities/contrasts to a notable event, as evidence of notability. The event warrants a paragraph in the Petito article, nothing more. Star Garnet (talk) 18:41, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Before commenting I read what meets the criteria for routine events. This is not routine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(events)#Routine_coverage CT55555 (talk) 00:49, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- This is run-of-the-mill murder coverage, i.e. routine. WP:NOTNEWS, etc., etc., etc. Star Garnet (talk) 01:53, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - I've read the policies that you link to, but I don't specifically see parts that back up what you are arguing. And I do see where the event meets the general notability requirements. I'm open to being persuaded, but you've not persuaded me. Can you really specifically point out where this should not be on wikipedia, rather than linking to a policy, spell out the parts that you think apply? Until then, I remain unpersuaded. CT55555 (talk) 13:05, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - On a world-scale, the media covers thousands of murders/killings/unnatural deaths at a high level of detail annually. It is not WP's place to compile that information, or even the few hundred that were covered most closely. Wikinews, sure. The four articles I nominated for deletion after browsing through the 30-odd 2021 murder/killing/death of X articles fall short of the others in level of news analysis and impact on outside events (I'm also skeptical of plenty of the others, but I could at least see a competent argument for them meeting at least one of the WP:EVENTCRITERIA). While they certainly received signicant coverage in the media, that is in the form of news reports. We don't have the secondary sources to satisfy SIGCOV. Could this incident gain notability through a book, law, or otherwise? Sure, in the way that some of today's paintings may get articles in 40 years. But until they have gained that secondary coverage, these are WP:NOTMEMORIAL material. Specific to this case, WP:DEPTH states that "Media sources sometimes report on events because of their similarity (or contrast, or comparison) to another widely reported incident. Editors should not rely on such sources to afford notability to the new event, since the main purpose of such articles is to highlight either the old event or such types of events generally." Star Garnet (talk) 16:28, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      - Thanks, I appreciate this context. I don't want to make a hasty comment, so I'll reflect on this. May I just ask one other question of you, I see AfD described a some sort of last resort whereby we should try to improve articles before deleting them. Would you say that you or anyone has done that with these four examples? CT55555 (talk) 16:35, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        No problem, I should have made a clearer case in the original nomination. While I didn't edit the article (which I did for several of the other pages that I didn't nominate), I did search for sources that could help satisfy SIGCOV, and came up empty. Star Garnet (talk) 17:12, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Putting aside whether or not the 'significant coverage' that the event received qualifies as SIGCOV (the sources are reliable but not secondary), I would suggest you look at WP:EVENTCRITERIA. Particularly this paragraph: "Editors should bear in mind recentism, the tendency for new and current matters to seem more important than they might seem in a few years time. Many events receive coverage in the news and yet are not of historic or lasting importance. News organizations have criteria for content, i.e. news values, that differ from the criteria used by Wikipedia and encyclopedias. A violent crime, accidental death, or other media events may be interesting enough to reporters and news editors to justify coverage, but this will not always translate into sufficient notability for a Wikipedia article." Star Garnet (talk) 22:58, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This double murder has been linked by the media to the Killing of Gabby Petito because they occurred within days of each other and in the same vicinity. Both cases also involved the same police department. However, the media speculation connecting the two cases was not substantiated. If one is to consider other possibilities, such as merging with another article then the Killing of Gabby Petito would be a candidate merger option, even though it is not connected. Keeping this as a separate article in some ways protects other articles from inappropriate addition of content. There is enough coverage, worldwide, simply because of the coincidence in space and time for it not to be a "routine" murder or "routine" coverage. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 08:47, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, article is well sourced and I agree with those who want to keep this as it is clearly not routine. Davidgoodheart (talk) 20:17, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - plenty of good sources. Sustained coverage. BabbaQ (talk) 22:44, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the unsolved nature of the crime and the FBI investigation into a possible connection to the killing of Gabby Petito appears to be generating sustained and significant coverage in diverse sources, which could further develop the article, e.g. Newlyweds told friends about a ‘creepy guy’ at their Utah campsite. Five days later, they were found shot dead. (Washington Post, Aug. 26, 2021), Details released in deaths of newlywed couple at campsite (Associated Press, Sept. 9, 2021), Utah newspaper pens apology for coverage of double murder in Moab (Independent/Yahoo, Sept. 10, 2021), Utah authorities make rare public appeal for help solving Kylen Schulte and Crystal Turner homicides (Independent/Yahoo, Sept. 29, 2021), Unsolved murders and Petito case leave dark cloud over Moab (Associated Press, Oct. 3, 2021), Remembering the light: Local artist creates sculpture in memory of Kylen Schulte and Crystal Turner (Salt Lake Tribune, Jan. 8, 2022), FBI says Petito, Laundrie not involved in double murder outside Moab (FOX13, Jan. 20, 2022), Investigators Have 'Persons of Interest' in Moab Murders of Crystal Turner and Kylen Schulte (People, Jan. 24, 2022, also reported in the Independent), Family still searching for answers in Utah double-murder investigation (WTKR3, Jan. 25, 2022). Beccaynr (talk) 00:52, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.