Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moinul Islam Kowshik

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 17:12, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Moinul Islam Kowshik[edit]

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Mainul Islam Kowshik has been on the Bangladesh men's national field hockey team since 2012, and played in the South Asian Games, Hockey World League, Hockey Asia Cup, and Asian Games. He is regularly mentioned in primary source match reports such as [1], [2], and [3]. But there are hardly any mentions in secondary sources - ones that aren't first hand accounts by an observer of the event - as called for by the WP:GNG. All I could find, including when searching by মইনুল ইসলাম কৌশিক (name in Bengali script), is a mention that he was high scorer the previous season and a mention that he scored against China in their prior match. This does not rise to significant coverage in multiple secondary sources. Worldbruce (talk) 05:35, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Worldbruce (talk) 05:37, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bangladesh-related deletion discussions. Worldbruce (talk) 05:37, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep notable enough to be interviewed by Prothom Alo, the second largest newspaper in Bangladesh [4]. Given that he has played at the international level and is being interviewed by a major national newspaper, I think necessary sources exist but may be in printed newspapers in Bangladesh. Wugapodes [t^hɑk] [ˈkan.ˌʧɹɪbz] 03:34, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not persuaded by "think necessary sources exist [in print]". These days every periodical in Bangladesh also publishes online. Their online archives for 5-6 years ago may be weak, but the subject should be at the peak of his career now, so if secondary sources exist, one should be able to find them online. That said, I did miss the Prothom Alo interview, so good work finding that. It contains a few sentences of analysis by the interviewer before becoming a primary source interview. Perhaps participants will feel that is enough. --Worldbruce (talk) 02:08, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not up to speed on Bangladeshi news practices, so I can't speak to that. You make a good point that being near his peak finding sources shouldn't be this hard, but I'm also wary of systemic bias considering this is a player from a non-anglophone country in a niche sport. The Prothom Alo source, in the context of what else we know about the player, makes me think the necessary sources exist not just out of hope but based on WP:NEXIST and WP:NSPORT. An internet search cannot turn up every possible source, and per WP:NEXIST we need to consider the possibility of existent sources if none can be found by a search. This is the reason NSPORT exists, to reflect the fact that sports figures are likely to meet Wikipedia's basic standards of inclusion if they have, for example, participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level. The reasoning being that players at the highest international level are likely important enough in their home country to be covered in local publications, and so presumably sources exist to satisfy the GNG even if they don't readily appear in search results. The assumption that he'd be covered by local new sources is bolstered by him having been interviewed by the second largest newspaper in the country, and so the idea that sources with lower circulation and a limited online presence would have covered him does not seem far fetched. This isn't the ideal evidence, hence the weak keep, but based on my reading of WP:N I am more convinced that the subject is notable than not. Wugapodes [t^hɑk] [ˈkan.ˌʧɹɪbz] 06:36, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If we knew a difficult-to-access publication existed (Bangladesh Field Hockey Monthly, say), it would be reasonable to assume per WP:NEXIST that some issue of it likely covered Maninul Islam. But we have no evidence of any such niche periodical, and after three years and an extensive WP:BEFORE, no substantial secondary source has been found. A player runs through stock sports cliches along the lines of: 'It's a team effort', 'I'm just happy to be here', 'We gotta play 'em one day at a time', etc. Is that an indicator of notability, when printed in a major newspaper? I hesitate to assume that the Prothom Alo interview is the tip of some iceberg trove of encyclopedic information.

The phrase "at the highest level" is key in "likely to meet Wikipedia's basic standards of inclusion if they have, for example, participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level (such as the Olympics)." Field hockey is an Olympic sport; that is the sport's highest level competition, where the world's 12 best teams compete. Bangladesh has never fielded a men's Olympic field hockey team and, currently ranked 34th, is unlikely to soon.

WP:NSPORT is a raw deal for Mainul Islam. Many other sports define high levels of competition (other than just the highest) for which sports figures can be presumed notable. But not field hockey. This appears to be intentional on the part of the community. If one looks at Asian Games squads (the highest level at which Mainul Islam has played), they're a sea of red links except for countries who have qualified for the Olympics: India, Pakistan, Malaysia, China, and South Korea. (Asian Games 2018 - 2014 - 2010 - 2006 - 2002)

If this is kept, so be it, but short of stringing together all the primary source match reports, I don't see a way to make it more than a permastub. --Worldbruce (talk) 04:49, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 16:27, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spirit of Eagle (talk) 04:43, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete When there’s absolutely no evidence of notability you end up with one sentence “articles”. Trillfendi (talk) 14:05, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete My search didn't find the significant independent coverage needed to meet WP:GNG. None of the sources in the article provide that (one link doesn't even mention him). There's no evidence he ever competed at the world championships or Olympics so WP:NSPORT is not met. Papaursa (talk) 00:00, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.