Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Minako Hamano

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. treating as a soft deletion so can be restored immdiately if anyone finds another decent source Spartaz ^Humbug! 03:42, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Minako Hamano[edit]

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Does fulfill neither of the criteria of WP:COMPOSER. Only one single reliable (but primary) source on biographical information. Article otherwise based on unreliable source (Wikia) and trivial coverage (composer credit). No way to expand the article beyond a simple credits list. Page has been deleted before, too. Prime Blue (talk) 14:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. —Prime Blue (talk) 17:52, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think she qualifies as notable or I wouldn't have written the article--just because a previous article was deleted says nothing about her notability, only that it was not established in the previous article. The article is expandable, I've already added some further primary references. Commercial composers are no less composers because of the the usage of their work. Note that more traditional players of classical music like ensembles and orchestras are noticing the popularity of the Nintendo game music--I've added a couple of references to show this. Also, she is a woman successful in what is considered a man's field. She meets the following criteria from WP:COMPOSER:

Has credit for writing or co-writing either lyrics or music for a notable composition. (These games are clearly notable, though I'm not a fan.)
Has established a tradition or school in a particular genre. (Okay, not single-handedly, but she's part of the success of the Nintendo game music.)
Has composed a number of melodies, tunes or standards used in a notable genre, or tradition or school within a notable genre. (See list of game credits.)
Is frequently covered in publications devoted to a notable sub-culture. (See web search on her name for fan publications, and also magazines like GameAxis Unwired.) Pkeets (talk) 16:22, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Notable composition" refers to a composition which meets the notability criteria to have an article on Wikipedia, the notability of the games alone is not sufficient. Please give some reliable and independent sources to prove that the other criteria you listed are fulfilled. Especially the last point, since all the references you have listed in the article either do not mention the subject at all (e.g. GameAxis Unwired) or are only trivial coverage with a passing mention (Classicals: Webster's Quotations, Facts and Phrases). Do you have any detailed interviews or articles on her that could help expand this article with biographical information and to establish notability? Prime Blue (talk) 16:58, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I think you confused Play! A Video Game Symphony with Video Games Live. As far as I am aware, Play! has not had a Metroid arrangement yet. Prime Blue (talk) 17:02, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, sorry, no interviews or puff articles. However, I've been doing a number of composer biographies and these are quite often unavailable for low-profile composers in non-English speaking countries. Most living female composers market their compositions quite actively, but are reticent about personal information. Hamano's birth date, place of birth, city of residence and employer are all covered in the article. It's not necessary to include privacy sensitive information about her family, background, activities, etc. Is expanability one of the criteria for notability? Also, perhaps the orchestrated music isn't clear in the article? It's Legend of Zelda in Play! and Video Games both. Pkeets (talk)

P.S. I've added a link to the Video Games Live concert in Singapore. This is serious music; however, the "work for hire" aspect is somewhat disturbing. I hope all Nintendo's composers are getting their due in some way or other. Pkeets (talk) 19:20, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions. (G·N·B·S·RS·Talk) • Gene93k (talk) 19:25, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Expandability is the fundamental criterion for articles on people, as they must have received significant coverage in reliable independent sources to be notable. But seeing how no sources exist to prove the fulfillment of either of the criteria, I think this is a pretty clear case.

Regarding the concerts: Play! A Video Game Symphony had the "Ballad of the Wind Fish" in its Zelda medley. Since no composer breakdowns for Link's Awakening were released, it could be that this was either composed by Hamano or co-composed with Kazumi Totaka and Kozue Ishikawa (though saying that it contained her music is completely WP:OR). Video Games Live exclusively used arranged music originally composed by Koji Kondo in both their older and newer "segments". Then again, I shouldn't have brought this up as it does not really bear any relevance to an AfD... Prime Blue (talk) 19:37, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree that expandability is a necessary criterion for notability. I do agree that attribution is a problem here--another aspect of the work-for-hire situation. However, she is credited on the games, so we have to accept that she did, at the least, collaborate on this now high-profile music. Perhaps the work-for-hire is a similar situation to providing incidental music for film soundtracks (since Stokowski a respectable avenue for composers)? Anyhow, I think we should have some other opinions on this. Pkeets (talk) 20:02, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I think that notability is there, but I can't source it - and that's a bit frustrating. Sources would take care of the expandability issue, as well. I'll see what I can come up with. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 15:02, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I have removed two references from the article because they were to books published by ICON Group International, which takes its content from Wikipedia. Phil Bridger (talk) 23:27, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The work-for-hire situation must be fairly common in Asia. I'm currently working on the bio of a Chinese composer that works for a film studio. Pkeets (talk) 01:37, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.