Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Prince (novelist)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:11, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Prince (novelist)[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable author I discovered at NPP, every single source is unreliable with the exception of the Arabic source, which just name-drops him. Athena Book Tavern has only published his most recent book, and a search of the first English-language book brought up only Wikipedia. It's not impossible he's notable via Arabic-language press, which I can't search, but the fact there's absolutely nothing in an English before search makes me think this is promotional/non-notable. SportingFlyer T·C 08:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. SportingFlyer T·C 08:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Egypt-related deletion discussions. SportingFlyer T·C 08:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. SportingFlyer T·C 08:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Non-notable per nom. -CoronaEditor (talk) 09:32, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I can read and speak Arabic and the Arabic-language references check out. There is also a TV interview in the references which is an episode of "Asir el-Kotob," the biggest book show in the Middle East. Also, the Arabic source does not just "name-drop" him: It mentions his name as a nominee for the Arabic Booker Prize. He did not win the prize, but the fact that he has been nominated is notable. The article should stay to enrich Wikipedia's content about writers from different parts of the world. The same goes for Russian, Greek, German, and other writers who have not yet been translated into English: They have Wikipedia articles, too.--Viewerindepth (talk) 18:23, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Arabic source, as translated, just says "and [book name] by Michael Prince." That's not significant coverage, especially not enough for a WP:BLP. Interviews with an author are considered WP:PRIMARY - we need secondary sources. If there are other sources in Arabic I will be happy to review them. SportingFlyer T·C 20:24, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I ran the source through Google Translate and if I'm understanding things properly, it looks like the nominations come from the publishing houses rather than being a list compiled by the award granting institution per se. Assuming that they don't allow authors to submit their own work, this does make it somewhat more selective but it's ultimately the publishers putting the book forward rather than the award granting institution specifically picking out that book. It's a good example of why nominations by themselves aren't seen as granting notability, as a publisher could put forward three books. If ten publishers put forward three books, then that's 30 right there that have been nominated. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 21:14, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, out of professionalism, I had to remove that public deletion notice as it is considered legal libel against the writer's reputation. We at Wikipedia are better than that. If you want an article to be deleted, next time just message the editors directly. You can delete the article, but putting a glaring notice like this one will have a tremendous impact on a notable author's reputation. Viewerindepth (talk) 19:56, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone bring formal closure to this discussion? I'd really appreciate it.Viewerindepth (talk) 19:56, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've restored the AfD notice per our deletion procedures. AfDs are open for at least a week. If you think this is libelous, please see Wikipedia:Libel. SportingFlyer T·C 20:22, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In that case go ahead and delete the article Viewerindepth (talk) 20:53, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete a non-notable novelist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:35, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Writers are not automatically entitled to have Wikipedia articles just because they exist — they require reliable source coverage about them in media. When it comes to the award nomination, the publishing industry often tries to whitewash the distinction between "nominated in the sense of being submitted to the award committee for consideration" and "nominated in the sense of actually being named to the short or long lists by the award committee" so that the writer's self-published PR can use the phrase "award-nominated" — but for the purposes of an AUTHOR pass on "award-nominated" grounds, a writer has to be listed by the award committee as a finalist, not just submitted to them as an entrant. The reason I mention this is that our article about the International Prize for Arabic Fiction (which is where the phrase "Arabic Booker Prize" redirects to) does not name him as either a shortlisted or longlisted nominee in any year — so I ran the source for it through Google Translate in order to figure out what was going on, and it indeed merely states that he was submitted. Which means he has no "inherent" notability claims that would guarantee him a Wikipedia article, so his includability depends entirely on the quality of his sourcing — and none of the sourcing here is of the necessary type to count as getting him over WP:GNG: again, we require media coverage about him, not his own self-published website about himself or his "staff" profiles on the self-published websites of directly affiliated companies or organizations. Bearcat (talk) 15:48, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. But just for the record, the comments above are way, way out of context. It is amazing this conversation even exists about an article which, instead of asking to bolster it with more resources, has become the subject of trolling and spinning around in a vicious bureaucratic circle. And context is king. The fact that none of the people who are trolling the writer here has ever lived in the Middle East or known anything about Arabic book culture and what is considered to be notable there or not--projecting strange interpretations without knowing much about the subject matter--is worthy of a good social study on its own. If this is the level of comments on a one-page article, I wonder how people can trust more significant Wikipedia articles in natural and historical sciences. Delete. Also, I am no longer honored to be part of this community and will have to look for a more accepting and rational place. Have a good day, everyone, and be safe. Viewerindepth (talk) 20:46, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nice try, but no. For one thing, the Middle East still has real media that can be used to properly source the notability of people from the Middle East, so we simply don't have to exempt people from having to have real sources just because they were born in Egypt — and for another, you can't just short-circuit notability questions by pontificating about abstract philosophical principles. If your concern is about "bolstering the article with more resources", then you need to buckle down and find the sources that will actually make a difference — and if your concern is about whether anybody else "knows anything about Arabic book culture and what is considered to be notable there or not", then you need to buckle down and find the sources that will show that he's actually considered as important in Middle East literary culture as you claim he is. Either way, it's on you to do the work, not on anybody else to just listen to assertions you can't be bothered to actually back up with proper sources. Bearcat (talk) 22:11, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.