Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mather House (Harvard University)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep; further discussion about merging can continue in the normal course (though there doesn't seem to be much consensus growing for that option). Mojo Hand (talk) 15:47, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mather House (Harvard University)

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College dorm that has not been the subject of significant coverage in secondary sources independent of the school. Hirolovesswords (talk) 18:39, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There are separate AFDs running on 4 of 13 Harvard residence houses:

As they have separate differing sources, they need separate consideration, but are related. --do ncr am 22:14, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dudley House isn't a residence. EEng (talk) 22:20, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. ^BE _CK ^Y _SA ^{Y L}E _S 20:45, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. ^BE _CK ^Y _SA ^{Y L}E _S 20:45, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Merge (and redirect), tentatively. Note that merge and redirect would be better than deleting, to a list-article about Harvard buildings or Harvard residence houses/halls. There is navbox {{HarvardResidentialHouses}} that lists Mather and 12 other "residence houses". All 13 plus also List of Harvard College freshman dormitories appear in navbox {{Harvard}}. However there is not a suitable list-article available to merge to, here, AFAIK, yet. Note there is an unrelated Mather House (Case Western Reserve University), too, subject of AFD ending Keep.

This is one more in a series of AFDs about individual dormitories at universities. The common outcome recently as I observe them is to merge and redirect to a central list-article about all dorms or all buildings at the university. Many of the list-articles also lack significant references proving Wikipedia-notability, but it seems that the topic of buildings at a university seems obviously enough. I have proposed such mergers and created some list-articles to serve as merger targets. However, I am losing my confidence that merging is so great. What is so much better about one combo article than separate shorter articles? And I don't like all the similar AFDs; been there, done that, let's stop!

Anyhow, I hope editor effort/discussion focuses on alternatives of:

1) Keep, adding sources to this one and Keeping it separately,

or discussing what is the best approach to develop a new list-article:

2a) Merge: adapt List of Harvard College freshman dormitories and move to List of Harvard residence houses and dormitories

2b) Merge: create new List of Harvard residence houses (watch if there is a draft at Draft:List of Harvard residence houses

or just vote to stop the madness

3) Keep, as AFD is not necessary, and in order to protest against the production of AFDs like this. In my view, more AFDs like this should not be welcomed. Better for an editor to develop the appropriate list-article and just do the merge-and-redirects, as an editing choice, rather than forcing many editors to give attention on AFD. wp:AFDISNOTFORCLEANUP.

My vote for now is 2a, Merge to new combo article on all the residence houses and dormitories. Please refer to 1, 2a, 2b, 3 alternatives in your comments, or suggest new alternatives. --do ncr am 21:28, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I would have no problem withdrawing AFDs if there is consensus for 2a, based on the precedent set at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/George Washington Tower and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John F. Kennedy Tower. --Hirolovesswords (talk) 21:59, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep all, no merging. Notable as architecture, as part of a notable institution, and as part of the biographies of notable persons. Houses are not the same at all as freshman dorms. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:39, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I appreciate the thoroughness of doncram's analysis above of alternatives. However, for reasons which must surely be obvious (fair or not) Harvard buildings get far more coverage than do corresponding buildings at other schools. The architectural criticism, histories of Harvard, and guidebooks alone qualify most of them right off -- certainly any built before 1950. Even the more marginal and newer buildings have had more-than-substantial coverage one way or another (I wrote Peabody Terrace without even leaving my desk, and the public dealings between Harvard and the City of Cambridge in the preliminary stages of any Harvard project in the last 75 years leave a large public record) and the better known and more prominent ones have been mentioned extensively because of the circumstances of their building, the people who have lived there, and the things that have happened there e.g. Lowell House is the only US dormitory listed in the Michelin Guide. Most of the freshman dormitories outside Harvard Yard, and many of the graduate residences (but by no means all -- e.g. the Gropius-designed Harvard_Graduate_Center and, again, Peabody Terrace) do belong on lists because (if for no other reason) there's just not enough to say about them, even if they're technically notable. But the idea that all Harvard residences can be merged into a list is just ludicrous. EEng (talk) 22:06, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notability is not inherited. Therefore, it is not notable just because it is owned by a notable institution and notable people lived there. And if substantial, in-depth coverage does exist, please provide sources that demonstrate this. --Hirolovesswords (talk) 23:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but I don't need any links to basic notability principles, and if you think WP:NOTINHERITED is any kind of response to what I said above, then you need to reread it. I didn't say any building is notable because it's a Harvard building, rather that most Harvard buildings have received a great deal of coverage over the years (for various reasons) -- which is the test for notability -- and therefore, in turn, the idea of merging all Harvard residential buildings into a single list is (I repeat) ridiculous.

For the present case, see the writeups in [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] for starters. EEng (talk) 23:56, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As the topic is covered in sources such as Harvard: An Architectural History. Andrew D. (talk) 00:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 11:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 11:51, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Listed at Talk:Harvard University and Talk:Harvard College. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:56, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The sources provided above demonstrate notability. --Oakshade (talk) 06:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.