Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Massimo Negrotti

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:30, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Massimo Negrotti[edit]

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I do not believe the article's subject meets WP:N or WP:ACADEMIC. Subject is a professor with some published books/articles, but doesn't have mentions in secondary sources or meets any of the criteria in WP:ACADEMIC. I started pruning out some of the fluff from the article, so editors might want to check [1] to see how the page was before I started. There are a lot of links in the page, but most of them don't include the information supposedly cited in the article, or are dead. Even if it doesn't warrant deletion, there is heavy clean-up needed. I just don't know how much would be left if the article was properly sourced, as all WP:BLP articles should especially be. Angryapathy (talk) 17:59, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Angryapathy,

I'm not used to edit my page, but today I tried to improve it adding two bibliography sections and some academic links where my work is quoted. Really I do not know why these changes disappeared. Please, let me know. Best, Massimo Negrotti — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.234.169.168 (talk • contribs) 05:33, January 28, 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. – Joe (talk) 17:24, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Based on the information provided in the page, this fails WP:PROF: there simply is nowhere near enough evidence of scholarly impact. Also, based on geolocating the many IP edits throughout the page history, this appears to be very much a case of WP:AUTO and WP:COISELF. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:12, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. A GS h-index of 9 seems rather low for the field. Xxanthippe (talk) 21:26, 31 January 2018 (UTC).[reply]
Keep. Although his citations are really quite remarkably low, he passes WP:PROF as a Professore ordinario [it], the highest level in the Italian university system, at the Università degli Studi di Urbino, a major university (ref: this university source). The page needs a complete overhaul, obviously. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 22:11, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Question: is Professore ordinario equivalent to "Full professor", which seems to be what the current version of the page says? (It translates as "Ordinary Professor".) Or is it something higher than full professorship, such as a major chair? If it's the latter, then WP:PROF might be satisfied, but if it's the former, he needs, for example, a much higher h-index. I don't know enough about the Italian academic system. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:23, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: About it being a "major university", I looked at our page on List of universities in Italy#International rankings, and it appears to be ranked not so high. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:34, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tryptofish, I can't guess what you mean by "full professor", or indeed by "equivalent", because I don't know where you are – in my experience, different countries apply widely different standards, and have different names for those standards, and comparison is often somewhere between hard and meaningless. I purposely linked to the Italian wp article on professorship so that people could make their own determination on this. Ordinario is the top level, above associato; emerito is grander, but means "retired", as in English. The university of Urbino is a national-level "proper" university ("Università degli studi") with about 14000 students and some 500 years of history ... why I am telling you this, you can read about it here? I'm not aware of any named professorial chair in Italy, but that could just be my ignorance; in Italian, exactly as in English, "chair" (cattedra) is synonymous with "professorship" – "he holds the chair in ..." means precisely the same as "he is the professor of ...". I've edited the page, by the way. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 00:03, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

For "Full Professor", please see Academic ranks in the United States#Most common hierarchy, and note the distinction between Full and "Distinguished, Endowed or University". Then please see WP:PROF#Criteria, criterion #5. It's clear from your answer to me that Ordinario is like "Full", and it fails criterion #5. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:12, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tryptofish, it is the highest level of university professorship in Italy. I submit that it is therefore "equivalent", at least in some sense, to the highest level of professorship in other countries such as the United States, "an equivalent position in countries where named chairs are uncommon". I note in passing, not as an argument here, that that criterion needs to be revisited to reflect a more global perspective than that of the United States, per WP:CSB. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:32, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Here would be my question, Justlettersandnumbers to try and clarify. How many Professore ordinarios are at each university? Is it just a few, or is it a large group of tenured professors? If each university has 20 or more Professore ordinarios (I apologize is that isn't the correct pluralization for Italian speakers), we would be making thousands of Wikipedia articles for all the Professore ordinarios in Italy. Angryapathy (talk) 14:47, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's equivalent to "Professor" in the US, not equivalent to "Distinguished Professor" (and at a mid-level university). WP:PROF and WP:GNG are what apply here, as they exist now, and the page is clearly one that should be deleted. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:38, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete--Fails our subject-criterion by a mile.Winged Blades^Godric 06:29, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Professore ordinario is equivalent to the academic standing of "full professor" and no more. Full professor is the highest academic standing for non-administrative faculty, even in the USA. The "named chair" or "distinguished professor" in WP:PROF #5 refer to prestigious positions or appointments (i.e, jobs) for which a small percentage of full professors considered most important in their field are hired. This does not apply to Professor Negrotti, nor do any of the other criteria, nor does WP:AUTHOR, as far as I can tell. Wikipedia is WP:NOTLINKEDIN. --IamNotU (talk) 21:48, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- My buddy just got one of those named appointments--unfortunately it's really not a cool name. But the paycheck is just that much sweeter. Drmies (talk) 01:00, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - You mean people in academia get paid?? --Tryptofish (talk) 02:22, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - Plus it comes with a complimentary Wikipedia article, and a bonus set of steak knives! I trust he knows enough not to edit the article himself from an anonymous IP... --IamNotU (talk) 13:06, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.