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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Kurykh (talk) 15:05, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Maronda Homes

[edit]
Maronda Homes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Clearly a business listing in which it violates our policies alone because we're not a business webhost, next is the fact these sources are only mere announcements, mentions and all similar, none of it substantiates the genuine notability we need; as always, our policies state themselves articles must be judged by as independently notable, and not bestowed from others. Mere announcements, regardless of publication, isn't what convinces our main policies. SwisterTwister talk 19:14, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete and SALT - Purely promotional. Nothing notable about subject. WP:NOT applies. Created by SPA account who continues to recreate article after it has been deleted.
  • 03:57, 8 February 2017 Acroterion (talk | contribs) deleted page Maronda Homes(Multiple reasons: speedy deletion criteria A7, G11)
  • 13:59, 8 February 2017 Jimfbleak (talk | contribs) deleted page Maronda homes (Multiple reasons: speedy deletion criteria G12, A7, G11)
  • 16:35, 8 February 2017 Jimfbleak (talk | contribs) deleted page Maronda homes (Multiple reasons: speedy deletion criteria A7, G11)
  • 18:59, 8 February 2017‎ Article is recreated again.
Sources in article do nothing to establish notability only that the business exists. CBS527Talk 01:22, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Do not Delete -I understand your concern with it being too PR focused however I have to say I really tried to keep it as unbiased and neutral as possible which i am being. I created the page because during our home buying process in the pittsburgh area we researched many builders and couldn't seem to find to much info on maronda homes, that is not the reason we didn't use them. But the other builder we went with has a wikipedia page so i figured why should maronda and s&a homes.

Creating the page was one of my ways to expose more info to potential people looking for more info on the company. I also plan to create a page for S&A homes but before i do that i would like to make sure i have a full understanding of what Wikipedia is looking for. Should i locate more creditable sources? The local papers are pretty big publications and i would with out a doubt consider them creditable. Their no NYtimes but they are legit brick & mortar establishments in pittsburgh for 100+ years. I don't think i am going to find too much in terms of bignames like NYtimes because their not in NY. Let me know what more you need and i will try my best.

here is something [1] but will this be considered to PR related, I guess it's just hard when your talking about a business to stray away from that.

Could this fit the non-PR related [2][3]

Just trying to understand because I think i could take a look at any page and say "Too PR focus" or "Purely Advertising"

From Coca-Cola "Coca-Cola (often referred to simply as Coke) is an American carbonated soft drink[1] produced by The Coca-Cola Company in Atlanta, Georgia, United States." Purely advertising, no?

From Dell "Dell sold personal computers (PCs), servers, data storage devices, network switches, software, computer peripherals, HDTVs, cameras, printers, MP3 players, and electronics built by other manufacturers. The company was well known for its innovations in supply chain management and electronic commerce, particularly its direct-sales model and its "build-to-order" or "configure to order" approach to manufacturing—delivering individual PCs configured to customer specifications.[6][7] Dell was a pure hardware vendor for much of its existence, but with the acquisition in 2009 of Perot Systems, Dell entered the market for IT services. The company has since made additional acquisitions in storage and networking systems, with the aim of expanding their portfolio from offering computers only to delivering complete solutions for enterprise customers."

Purely advertising, no?


Other comparable companies to Maronda Homes in which i don't see any different than Maronda Homes or S&A homes. Help me understand. Heartland Homes M/I Homes, NVR,_Inc., PulteGroup

References

  1. ^ http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2016/05/03/new-single-family-homes-underway-college-hill/83872710/
  2. ^ http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2011/12/28/biggest-pittsburgh-area-bankruptcy.html
  3. ^ http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2011/12/28/biggest-pittsburgh-area-bankruptcy.html
Otelcon (talk) 11:35, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please note for all recreations, content was drastically altered to accommodate infringements on deletion. It's not like I just spammed to create them

I see many sections that this page fits the criteria for. The controversial thing about it is everyone has their own opinion i think from an Admin perspective you need to put yourself in a neutral role, i feel that your looking at my page as I am trying to just get a wiki page for promotion. I am trying to get this page up for information on the company for other people if information gets up that is bad good, if good information gets up, its just information. I feel like i am being singled out especially when there are many other companies with the same parameters clearly listed on wikipedia. Thoughts? WP:IS Otelcon (talk) 11:43, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Is this a notable article? Just really trying to dig in to find some stuff? If not why? [1]Otelcon (talk) 11:52, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • More articles, Creditable?

Maronda files Chapter 11? [2]

References

  1. ^ https://www.probuilder.com/stealth-giant
  2. ^ http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2011/04/19/Maronda-Homes-seeks-bankruptcy-protection/stories/201104190212

Creditable enough to have a wikipedia page Pittsburgh_Post-Gazette writen by Tim Grant: [email protected] or 412-263-1591.

Again not trying to be confrontational, just trying to understand what peoples personal opinions are of creditable vs not creditable. You talk to anyone around Pittsburgh and a 80 mi radius and they would say the Post Gazette is a highly creditable source.Otelcon (talk) 13:17, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Added above to Article page with 3 sourcesOtelcon (talk) 13:24, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Otelcon, Please don't feel this is personal, because it is not. 100's of articles are deleted every week for similar problems. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines and that is what is being discussed here. Wikipedia is not a directory for business listings. An article on a business that doesn't establish notability may appear that the only purpose of the article is to promote the business. The subjects audience is considered. Maronda Homes is a small, local builder. Per policy, sources based solely from local media, or media of limited interest and circulation, is not an indication of notability. It seems that the only sources available for this builder fall in this category. The differences between this business and Coca-Cola, Dell, NVR and Pulte is that they are large, national, publicly traded corporations with plenty of national/international coverage. As far Heartland Homes and M/I Homes, these articles are marginal and more than likely will have their own discussion soon. In searching for sources to add to improve the article I could only find PR listings, individual property transfers, local newspaper articles or trivial mentions. If someone can find some significant coverage in independent, reliable sources outside of this business' market area or product area it may help but as it stands this article doesn't seem to meet the requirements for inclusion. CBS527Talk 17:31, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Cbs527, I def am not taking it personal I understand the position, I am just defending my position on that I believe this is creditable article and no-bais information, I got nothing but love for all you admins / mods who have to pick through all this incoming junk. However might I add that they are a national home builder and not a small local builder. They are creditable articles in the venue of their business which depending on your perspective, keyword perspective you could deem those as significant or not significant. I respect that this is not the vehicle for business listings, which this is not my goal. The company is well beyond a mom and pop company. How could you leave M/I Homes and Heartland Homes up for so long which uses all the same references i have and their NYtimes article doesn't even mention heartland homes. M/I Homes article is a complete joke I suggest you check it out and you will see where i am coming from. I can find more examples outside of home builders. Just let me know i will supply it.

All sources do fit into the definition outline here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Reliable_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources#News_organizations

It is your opinion on if you want to classify them as not reliable but they do meet the criteria in the policies outlined above. Would you agree or disagree? Again I just want to stress this is completely friendly conversation so please don't take it like I am getting defensive. In fact its friday and if you all lived by me i would say lets go have a beer Oyster_bar and bitch about creditable sources lol :)Otelcon (talk) 19:44, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The problem doesn't have to do with the reliability of the sources, it has to do with all of the references are from local sources and in some instances, such as the cincinnati.com article above, the depth of coverage. For instance, the bizjournals.com is a good reference as it has some in depth coverage about Maronda Homes. On the other hand the cincinnati.com article has a simply mention of Maronda Homes as one of six builders in a new 36 home subdivision. Please read WP:ORG for more information. I tried to find some sources outside of their market area to add to the article but I haven't been able to find any. And, I'll take you up on that beer! CBS527Talk 23:47, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
comment Otelcon re:How could you leave M/I Homes and Heartland Homes up for so long which uses all the same references i have and their NYtimes article doesn't even mention heartland homes. M/I Homes article is a complete joke I suggest you check it out and you will see where i am coming from. I can find more examples outside of home builders. Just let me know i will supply it. please see WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. Chrissymad ❯❯❯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 20:52, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Otelcon, Wikipedia articles are supposed to be an accurate summary of what reliable sources have to say about a subject. That means, other people need to have written about the subject before you. Please read the golden rule.Flat Out (talk) 21:33, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What was your reasoning again for [1] not being a valid source? Also how do i suggest other articles for deletion I see a lot out there no where near this golden rule. So just so i am on the same page. I need better sources and i can propose for resubmission? can't be a local established news paper and has to be written by an author? Did I get that correct. The creditable source can not be industry related and of a neutral party? Could you also point me to why exactly you declined all my post gazette articles [2]. It establishes the origin of the company, it's not by any means good press for a company. BEER?71.112.152.10 (talk) 22:53, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2011/04/19/Maronda-Homes-seeks-bankruptcy-protection/stories/201104190212
  2. ^ http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2011/04/19/Maronda-Homes-seeks-bankruptcy-protection/stories/201104190212
Otelcon you are not understanding the difference between sources that are allowed, and sources that establish notability. The sources you provide are allowed, but as announcements only, they dont establish notability of the company. Flat Out (talk) 00:06, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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