Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Markku Andersson

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 14:05, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Markku Andersson

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Mayor of a Finnish town of 131,000 people without any coverage in third party sources. Fails WP:GNG and WP:POLITICIAN. Valenciano (talk) 22:24, 1 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jyväskylä is 7th largest in population; I'm presuming it has regional importance since the ~~region~~ is named for it. Dru of Id (talk) 00:50, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Make that sub-region, but Jyväskylä has half the population of the region. Dru of Id (talk) 01:03, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but the article is about him, not about the town or sub region. He still needs to have been covered in sufficient reliable sources. Valenciano (talk) 01:06, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And what about the reliable sources found by clicking on the word "news" in the links spoon-fed by the nomination procedure? Phil Bridger (talk) 22:33, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That link doesn't work for me I'm afraid. I get the message "Izmantojot pieprasītās meklēšanas opcijas, neizdevās pabeigt vaicājuma – "Markku Andersson" – meklēšanu. Atiestatīt meklēšanas rīkus" (query not completed) when I click on it, so I have to google it manually and get these pages none of which look especially good, being from a small local paper. If you can produce better it would help. Valenciano (talk) 00:27, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Finland-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:17, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:17, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete Unless there are sources indicating a notability outside the elected position, this subject appears non notable. The size of the town may add importance to the position (hence the "weak"). I will watch for stronger sources. Stormbay (talk) 00:59, 3 May 2012 (UTC) Some references have been suggested - I'll say Weak Keep Stormbay (talk) 15:37, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The population of the city is stated in the nomination as an absolute value of 131,000 with the implication (please correct me if I've misinterpreted) that this is a small settled place. However, relative to the overall population of Finland, this does seem to be a population centre of some size (compare this place to, for example, Detroit's population relative to the United States). There is definitely coverage about this mayor that features him as the primary subject. See [1] and [2] from the Finnish Daily Keskisuomalainen. There's many more articles about this mayor in this newspaper indicating that reliable sources do exist. Aside from this newspaper, there is coverage here. He seems to be a member of some organisation devoted to governance of municipaliesas well. [3]. -- Whpq (talk) 16:45, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:39, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep per User:Whpq. I also detest the implication that 131,000 inhabitants somehow automatically means "small place". As it happens, Jyväskylä is the 7th biggest city in Finland, with about a quarter of the population of Helsinki, the capital. The English article is very short, but there is more material in the Finnish article, which could be translated and added to the English article. However, the Finnish article also only relies on a single source. JIP | Talk 05:32, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if I offended you, but what I meant is that overall, the absolute size of the town does have an impact. A Mayor of such a place would have a much smaller budget, his decisions would impact significantly fewer people than a city of 1 million plus. I went through the Finnish daily newspaper sources and had a look at the Finnish wikipedia article but nothing jumped out, though I was relying on translator programmes. It would help greatly if a Finnish native speaker could expand the article a bit so that we'd be better able to judge the importance of this person. Valenciano (talk) 13:35, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We have a fundamental disagreement in the way we interpret population information. I think it is important to take the population in the context of the population of the country. As for sources, did you review the first two sources I linked above? Even with machine translation (I used Google's), it's very clear that the primary subject is Markku Andersson, and the coverage is significant. The newspaper itself that published the article isn't some minor weekly community newspaper, it's a Finnish Daily that has been publishing since 1871. -- Whpq (talk) 13:49, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, based on a machine translation the first isn't about him it appears to be about the municipality itself so I disagree that he is the primary source. The second is more of what we're looking for, though it's quite short and it's still in his local paper, I'd be more convinced if it was in the national Finnish press. A few more sources like that however and we'd be closer to meeting WP:GNG. Valenciano (talk) 20:07, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If "the absolute size of the town has an impact" then how would you treat, for example, Reykjavík, which is smaller than Jyväskylä, but still the capital of an internationally recognised sovereign country, namely Iceland, whose total population is about two-thirds of that of Helsinki? JIP | Talk 16:00, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It has an impact but it's one factor among many. In the case of Reykjavik it's a national capital and therefore arguably of greater importance than the seventh largest town. However I'd still look overall at whether the WP:GNG is met and I still don't see that it is in this case. We really only have one short bio and that's from his local paper. Valenciano (talk) 20:07, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I have expanded the article by translating more text from the Finnish article. JIP | Talk 17:40, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that but the information is still sourced entirely to a primary source, the local council website. Valenciano (talk) 20:07, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment a week on we are still in the same position with this article. That he's the council leader of the seventh largest urban area in the nineteenth largest country in the European Union is hardly the most important role. We still only have one source provided that covers him in any sort of depth and that's in his local paper, the kind of standard, unexceptional coverage that every local politician will have. Valenciano (talk) 09:38, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.