Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marissa Marchant

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus. While there are four legitimate delete votes, none of them really present any compelling arguments. There is only one legitimate keep vote, but User:Musikfabrik shows the article is properly referenced and NPOV. She may fail WP:MUSIC but apparently has enough notoriety from other activities that her article can be included. I'm following WP:DGFA: "When in doubt, don't delete." Take it up with WP:DRV if you disagree. howcheng {chat} 23:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Marissa Marchant

(left empty; original nominator did not use template properly)

• Delete This is a vanity article about someone that likes to post on messageboards. --Looper5920 01:40, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep I disagree with your definition of "vanity article" because the article could not have been written by Ms. Marchant, given her distinctive style. While there are varying perspectives about Ms Marchant's talent, she certainly has a following and has made a name for herself and is news-worthy, in her own way. Her offer of selling her CDs for thousands of dollars was reported in any number of sources. I think that she does indeed have a certain importance in the area of web music, as she has become an extremely wellknown figure in these circles--for example, in this article in the Magazine San Francisco Weekly : http://www.sfweekly.com/Issues/2005-12-21/music/music.html . It is true that she does not completely fulfill the criteria for inclusion under the WP:MUSIC directives, but I have seen the "internet" and "Indie" aspects of this directive be brought into question in other discussions, so it would seem that this policy is evolving. There are other, much more frivilous articles about people who are lesser known. I think that this article should stay.Musikfabrik 16:39, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Marissa Marchant is a prominent regional singer-songwriter with outspoken attitudes on the state of the music business. She was the anecdotal lead in a San Francisco Weekly cover story on the variable pricing of records. Her posts on message boards allow her fans to keep up with her progress in recording, as well as her artistic influences. She is also a prolific writer with myriad thoughts on sexism, culture and society. To claim that the entry was a "vanity" post is to underestimate the number of Ms. Marchant's fans, as well as their interest in her artistic progress. I believe this article should be maintained, and hopefully expanded to include more about Ms. Marchant's musical accomplishments. -- robuptight 12:31, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
  • User's only edits are to this AfD. --Nlu (talk) 04:56, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Marissa has powers.

• Delete pure vanity. --Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 04:01, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

• I'm-easily-amused Keep I've spent a lot of time reverting vandalism from this article, it's in my permanent watchlist. It might not be the most high-minded of reasons, but I vote to keep this article just because I get such a laugh from the nature and content of the vandalism I remove. Whether it's from Marchant or not (much of the vandalism is rambling diatribes about how Marchant is an unappreciated musical genius - much of that is first-person, implying to be from Marchant herself), it can be damned entertaining while I'm RC Patrolling. --Krich (talk) 04:05, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep She is a verifiable Web Phenomenon. I mean, just do a search. Don't such as that deserve some sort of explanation? At any rate, she does have the talent (I'll leave it to the article to explain what sort) to deserve some recognition. --LyinDan 00:47, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

  User's only edit is to this AfD. --Nlu (talk) 04:58, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

  • I know LyinDan. I'll vouch for him. He's a well-known indie musician in a band called "Pig Nose Pickers", whose seminal hit was "Girl, you better boil it (I dropped your toothbrush in the toilet)". One of their band pages is here: http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Pig_Nose_Pickers/ He's not a sock puppet. As a matter of fact, he probably deserves an article himself, in the World of Net Musicians.Musikfabrik 09:26, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Marissa has powers.^2

• Delete. When sock puppets want to keep an article, it's usually a sign that an article should go. --Nlu (talk) 04:58, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep She is a renowned composer; somewhat eccentric perhaps but since when has that stopped genius - bigots

• I've already voted, but I wanted to make the further comment that this discussion is not about whether or not the votes to keep this article are valid, but rather whether the content in the article entitled "Marissa Marchant" is worthy of having a place on this service. The first phrase of the article states that Miss Marchant is "more notorious as an Internet phenomenon than as a musician", so is it surprising that there are people coming off of the web (who have never posted here before) to support her? I am not an administrator, so I can't verify this, but it seems to be that it would probably be quite easy to verify where they were coming from using the IP address. I'm convinced that they are NOT sock puppets, but rather people who are coming here to underline the importance of Miss Marchant's work.

• • What we have here is another discussion concerning "notability" and whether this fits into various people's ideas of whether or not people are "famous" enough to be on this sort of service. As a classical musician and musicologist, I know that the standards set in WP:Music simply do not apply to many people who are obviously important figures in the classical music World. And given the way that market is changing (for example, the major labels do not produce classical recordings any more, which has lead to many famous musicians-such as Jordi Savall and David Finckel, Cellist of the Emerson Quartet, to name only two--to produce their own recordings...much in the same way as independent net musicians...), the idea of using "label releases" as a means of judging worth is completely passé. Even with a "label release", the majority of classical recordings (even those by name artists and composers) rarely sell more than 200 units. This scale also does not apply to Net Musicians, who work "outside of the box". This does not mean that their actions do not have importance nor does it not mean that their work is without merit. It simply means that they have figured out another way to go about their business, which is currently becoming the norm. It seems quite apparent to me that WP:Music needs to have a major overhaul to take these new aspects of the music business into account.

• • The importance of Miss Marchant's work is centered around her action of asking for $1000 per CD on her website. While it does not constitute artistic greatness (a quality which obviously is subjective and outside of this discussion), it certainly caused a lot of discussion, on the net and off, which continues to this day about the market value of music and what the artist's reaction to it should or should not be. For this reason, Miss Marchant has significant importance as a cultural icon which is not a recent issue, but which has lasted for the several years that I have followed her career. In deleting this article, the Wikipedia community is closing itself to part of the music business which needs to be documented which it is still evolving. To delete this article would be doing a disservice to knowledge.Musikfabrik 09:58, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

• What about Esteban Buttez, mah holmes? He is an internets legend on ilXor.com, greater than Marissa!

• Keep Marissa is a well known internet personality and musician. --Pablo A

  User's only edits are to this AfD. --Nlu

(talk) 00:51, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

• • I THOUGHT WIKIPEDIA WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FREE AND OPEN, NIGGA! NOW I AINT GIVING MAH BLING TO JIMMY WALES!!

• Hello, I am the person you are speaking about.

You don't know me on a personal level, so it is not nice to laugh at people you can't figure out through the machine. You can keep this article if it is not negative. You don't have to talk about me like I am some kind of God of music. But to say that I am not known as a musician is rubbish. To say that I am more known for my 1000 dollar crazy cd scheme is rubbish, since I play, write and record right now, morning, noon and night.

• Delete While there are indeed Google hits, most of them seem to be related to her self-promotion rather than to her music. Ohnoitsjamie 03:03, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

What is interesting is that it is New Year's Eve and I am recording even tonight. The first few people were definately not myself and you people should know they are coming from California and the South of the U.S. I live in New York State. I am at home recording. I have devoted my whole life to music and art. That should sum up who I am. My devotion is what should be emphasized, not numbers etc.. People who are sour grapes love to flame people because they themselves are often discontent. I like to be positive about life, love and the new year. I am trying to improve myself, my behavior and my language. I want to be more loving this year and more productive. The world needs more of what is positive, and less of what is negative. I didn't write the article in the San Fransico Weekly, and someone else came up with that idea. I didn't prompt them.

• • I don't think you should keep this article. First off I don't like the name Marissa Marchant, and came up with a better name.

Secondly, I don't need Wikipedia's stamp of approval. Who are these people hiding behind a computer? Who cares? I don't care about Wikipedia. I think that my singing and quality of writing spoke for itself, that I am known more for music then anything else. The amount of money someone charges for a Cd is really not important, and either is the price of Paintings. The most important part of art is the quality. The amount of records someone sells is not important. The quality is. Numbers are not important to real artists. If the people at Wikipedia understood the value of true artists or artwork, they would not emphasize numbers or price.

• This is me again. I was Marissa Marchant, now I am Mariesa Sabriel, soon to be another name.

Anyway, the only Web Phenomenon out there in the real sense are the incredibly gifted Spiders. Spiders are also taken for granted. There is no Web developer who can exceed this mass of brilliance. The creation of Spider was a brilliant one. I was observering a spider as it was weaving its web and coming down on my nose while I was in bed one evening. When it realized it was landing on my nose, it soon made its way up on its string. Amazing creatures.

• We also have "Webbed" phenomenons, people with webbed feet can be called Webbed Phenomenons.

Does Marchant have Webbed feet? Is she a duck? Is she a webbed phenomenon?

• I am not as big an ego as you think. You could have a serious article written about me and you could definately start the article with these kind words; Marchant is a verifiable "webbed" phenomenon.

$$$$$$This is pure Vanity.$$$$$$$$ http://www.mariesasabriel.com/poetry.html Please read her new lyric for her Neo Celtic/Classical song on guitar for voice. (Flute added) It is called Meanderings. It took me a few hours to write it this morning. I am auctioning it off for a couple million. Just kidding.

~**** I am not rich at all. I spent over 150 thousand dollars in my little lifetime so far on musical items, lessons, and paintings. I am far from rich. Art is a main priority in my life and a love of my life and my families life. I wouldn't laugh at fine artists in a world that devalues artists. Our world once honored fine artists and fine art composers, singers, singer/writers. Now people are living in the past, following the media trends and not caring about artwork, or caring about the fine detail of a artistic building. We are now living in a ugly, bland world, a world that is living the past and humankinds past accomplishments. http://groups.google.com/group/fa.music.ecto/browse_thread/thread/5a1cc1e80c426bb5/847505b78eca9187?lnk=st&q=marissa%20marchant&rnum=1&hl=en&

• • A bit of context for y'all:

http://ilx.p3r.net/thread.php?msgid=6563752&showall=true

• • • A BIT OF VERY IMPORTANT info FOR YOU ALL.

http://www.mariesasabriel.com My name is not Marissa Marchant. I am also changing the name from Mariesa Sabriel to something else. If you are interested in hearing my music. Please continue to focus on the Mariesa Sabriel site until the finished site if completed with sellable Cd and covers. I am getting covers too.

• Delete

To a few people Marissa or whatever her name is not known as a musician but known more for a 1000 dollar Cd. But to other people Marissa is known more for her music. I think the article is biased to people who want to control the thoughts and opinions of others on the net. It seems they are trying to sway the opinions of others to make Marissa into another hooker of music. They want to say Marissa is another person not known for music but known for a gimmick. This is false information. Marissa isn't a hooker, and isn't someone who isn't worth the money. I am or was Marissa Marchant. But my new name isn't going to be Mariesa Sabriel after I finish this Cd. ..or CDS. This is a waste of your space. It is also mean and nasty to confuse people who want to hear music with so many different names. I came up with a nicer name... I better change it now..before I establish myself a little more. It is intersting that the Britney Spears Wiki articles don't say that she is known more for her body then her music. It is intersting that all these other people who are much more into gimmicks are people with articles that talk about them as though they are really artists and musicians. You sound totally anti-talent, I mean whoever wants to keep an article that says that real artists are not and people posing as artists with gimmicks are really artists. That is what this Wikipedia article is implying. It is implying that the music industry is signing artists. Are the rosters filled up for people who are known for their art? Or other gimmicks? Wikipedia is implying that the music industry filled with Rappers and people swinging around a poll are known more as musicans and artists and that people who are unsigned couldn't possibly be real musicians? How stupid are the people at Wikipedia?

• User's only edits are on this AfD and on the Marissa Marchant Page itself. Musikfabrik 20:34, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Doesn't this prove that the people who run Wikipedia are culturally illiterate?

Why would they have to think and question whether a dishonest article about someone deserves a place on their board. Aren't they aware that the music industry isn't signing artists on purpose but people who put out thoughtless music and people who are not complex because the people who run the music industry are as simple-minded as their pricings. The people at Wikipedia should be questioning whether people swinging around polls and people who are known more for writing offensive lyrics then music should be on Wikipedia then giving attention to someone like myself. I think the people in the music industry right now are known as one hit wonders, swinging around polls, grabbing themselves, offensive lyrics, and for their million dollar manison then they are known for music. It is interesting that you are giving a multi-instrumentalist, and multi-faceted artist so much thought, but you don't give thought to advertising non-musicians and non-artists. I think the people in the music industry are not really that well known for their music at the moment. I mean at the present time in history.

• The last two "delete" votes came from the same IP address and therefore the same person. Only one should countMusikfabrik 19:41, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

??The main controversy about people like Britney Spears and Christina Agulera is not about their sexual nature and image. It is about their lack of talent, lack of orginality and lack of writing skills and lack of unique vocals. The controversy is not about being sexual, it is about using sexuality to disguise their lack of talent. On Britney Spears article it plainly is very dishonest. Should Wikipedia have dishonest articles written about non-artists? Is she a singer? It said that she is. I don't think of Britney as a singer, and I think of Christina Agulera as an amateur singer or semi-professional. They sound that way to me. All the others, such Jewel, and all the new rock bands, they sound amateurish as well. They sound like semi-professionals to my ears and to some intelligent people. Also, alot of boybands, and people like John Mayor sound like a semi-professional to my ears. What kind of gimmick did they use to promote John Mayor? They took a very large amount of extremely high quality photographs and focused on his image, not that much about his music. They hype these people and they aren't really known as musicians to people like myself. Dave Matthews' first guitarist told me that I was more of a guitarist then Dave is. His first guitarist is not playing for him anymore and told me that he didn't think that Dave Matthews was that talented. Most likely his guitarist has more talent then Dave. I don't think of Dave Matthews as a really polished, professional musician, or his band.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.