Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Malik Joyeux

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Notability seems to be fairly well-established with multiple sources. --Wafulz 02:18, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Malik Joyeux

Wikipedia is not a tribute site. This article doesn't really assert notability. I thought about speedy deleting it, but wanted to get some opinions. Delete. --Nlu (talk) 17:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It depends on whether he was notable during his life, or originated anything notable. Anthony Appleyard 17:25, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
delete unless articles can be produced to establish any degree of notability - Tiswas^(t/c) 17:30, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Weak Delete. If he "was credited as one of the best 3 surfers in the world" but admittedly did not win any medals, I doubt there will be sources for N. DGG 19:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Week Keep Changed on the basis of the sources quoted just below. I'd accept the cover alone as sufficient. DGG 03:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep (with major rewrite) Subject's death covered in depth here and here. Sources repeat some of the claims in the article, plus states that the subject was on the cover of Surfer. Seems to satisfy the criteria for athletes in WP:BIO. Caknuck 19:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep based on the sources cited by Caknuck. However, the article definitely needs major cleanup. If the article is kept and no one else steps forward, I will commit to taking a crack at the initial cleanup.--Kubigula (talk) 21:57, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm changing my position to strong keep based on John's excellent efforts to rewrite the article. Although I usually avoid spending time on an article until a clear keep consensus emerges, I have also added a bit to the cleanup effort. I believe his notability is asserted and established both by having been the subject of multiple nontrivial secondary sources and for being an athlete competing at high level in the equivalent a sport's professional league, per WP:BIO.--Kubigula (talk) 17:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete In my opinion, after rewrite the article would read "Malik was a surfer who died surfing." and would then be nominated for delete. Almost any person dying young will get some local media coverage. Any member of a group who dies unexpectedly will receive brief coverage by media allied to that group. Neither is widespread or enduring, so I don't see this person as notable. - BierHerr 23:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The guy has an article on at least the French, German and Polish language wikis, and the French, in particular, is pretty decently structured with a breakdown of his significant finishes in surfing competitions. Yes, the guy is mostly notable for dying young, but he did also compete at a high level in his sport. It won't break my heart if the article is deleted, but the subject does meet the guidelines, and this isn't paper.--Kubigula (talk) 00:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sr13 (T|C) 08:44, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It needs a good cleanup, but the notability stems from the coverage of the death. Jmlk17 08:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Article is unsalvegable. It needs to be wikified, needs sources (in the article, not here), reads like a fansite and memorial ("His surfing technique was incredibly smooth and perfect. Malik was a surfer who could communicate the essence of surfing with all his being. He was an ocean of laughter, respect, innocence, friendship and generosity, a new generation of athlete, so pure as to be able to share real emotions. Not the emotions of winning yet another title or riding the biggest wave, but the simple emotion of being in love with the ocean and sharing its secrets.and it’s beauty. His life, his personality, his smile were the greatest show on earth."). Basically the entire article would need to be scrapped. If someone can create a good article in their subspace, then it can be recreated. TJ Spyke 09:09, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The language and approach of the present article is unencyclopedic. If the subject merits inclusion here then someone sufficiently knowledgeable can produce a replacement. BTLizard 10:40, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm. Clearly a big thing in the surfing world, but I'm seeing no mainstream coverage of him outside of that, and while his death seems to have caused quite a big stir, his life doesn't appear to have had the same impact. On balance, delete, until someone comes up with reliable sources of in-life notability that might satisfy WP:N. Moreschi ^Talk 11:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Notable surfer. Those who voted delete should look at the article on the other three language wikipedias, e.g. de:Malik Joyeux. I've hacked at the article a bit to clean it up. John Vandenberg 09:39, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment A good cleanup, but I still do not see any assertion of notability for this person. - BierHerr 16:08, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've brought his list of awards across from the German site and sourced the ones that can be readily attributed to a major mag or affiliated company. Sadly I dont have the time to write articles about each event/award, but at least now nobody need worry greatly that the awards list is the other language-pedia's are trumped up. I do know the last two events are major and the writeups on the "Gotcha Tahiti Pro" indicate it quickly became part of the international circuit; Kelly Slater won it in its second year of operation. Sadly surfing doesnt have the same level of coverage on Wikipedia as gridiron. John Vandenberg 16:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.