Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Magma (Gorath)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was SNOWBALL SPEEDY KEEP. Nobody here wants this deleted; Bamf himself even says "merged or deleted." Let's take this discussion of a merge to Talk:Gorath where it belongs. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:47, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Magma (Gorath)

This monster appears for only six minutes in an obscure film. I tried merging the actual content with the films' article, but was reverted. This either needs to be merged or deleted. Interrobamf 22:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

(Disclaimer: I wrote this article) Actually, all you did was blindly copy the section explaining the character's relevance to the plot into the article, calling it a "plot summary". That's not "merging"; there was much content — explaining the character's importance, why it was included in the film from a production standpoint, and it's removal from the English language releases of the film, etc. that simply wallow in the history.

What you conviently don't mention in your nomination is that you "tried merging" it twice before[1][2], but, in reality, you simply turned it into a redirect without once edited the target.[3] All this before any comments on any talk page, which you only did after someone else tried to start a discussion.[4] I'll also note the frequent similiar attempts, characterised by the same style of "merging" (or lack thereof) and no discussion, to turn other kaiju articles into redirects.[5][6][7][8][9][10]

On your actual points, you'll note that the article clearly states the length of time the character appears. However, it also notes the character's significance to said film, and goes on to explain why it is important within the context of tokusatsu and Toho productions in general.

The fact of the matter is, there is clearly content here that is not easily merged with the film. The article is (if I may be so vain) reasonably well-written and well-referenced, so there is really no case for deleting it. Having said that, I would not oppose a merge into a list of minor Toho kaiju, if absolutely necessary. Thanks.--SB | T 22:55, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletions. -- Intllll 00:38, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep I don't see any reason why this should be merged, and the previous merge attempt was grossly inadequate. [ælfəks] 05:55, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Well-written article, and while the film itself is minor, the character and its scene are important both within the movie and within the context of other Toho movies. Shimeru 06:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
• Merge per fiction guidelines. The Gorath article is very short. There's no reason for this to be split off. --Kunzite 21:12, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

• It was never split off; the vast majorify of the information in this article was never in the Gorath article. In any case, you have an odd definition of "very short", as Gorath is a pretty substantive article. Why don't you give an actual reason this should be merged, instead of blindly citing notability guidelines? --SB | T 21:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Please assume good faith and carry out your conversations in a civil manner.

It's a notability guideline and also a deletion and style guideline (it's the where the debate about character deletion was codified and the guidlines were recently updated to jive with the guidlines for writing about fiction.) The general premise of the guideline is to keep like things together until an encyclopedic treatment of the article makes it long enough to warrant its own article. In fact most of the information contained in Magma (Gorath) is duplicated in Gorath.

Gorath is an article just long enough not to be considered a stub. It is a very short article. It's one long paragraph and 5 short paragraphs long with a total of 418 words.

If you consider it substantive, then have a "odd definition" of substantive. --Kunzite 01:23, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Merge Bamf seems to have stirred up some bad blood, but this is a single character appearing in an obscure film which has a very short (five parapraphs is very short in my book) article. This is a perfect merge candidate. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - Nominating for AfD and seeking consensus is a far better approach than repeatdly converting an article into a redirect without merging content, and without discussing it anywhere. Thank you Interrobamf. Can we count on you to do the same for all the other articles you silently tried to merge out of existance? No comment on the merits of this article. ++Lar: t/c 05:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Article is complete on its own. The information contained within the Magma article is different from that of Gorath and they coexist separately rather well. Merging would be confusing and deletion wouldn't make sense as the character is important. In the interest of comprehensive, easy to understand topic coverage, I'd think it were best to leave them both as they are. --Keitei (talk) 06:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes, the character's so important that he was added at the last minute to the film to attract a Kaiju audience. No. It rampages around for six minutes and then dies. It's a distraction from the main plot. Interrobamf 16:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.