Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lyta Alexander

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. DS 19:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Lyta Alexander

Delete or Merge to Characters from Babylon 5. These characters are not notable/interesting enough to all have their own web page. Zargulon 15:21, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following articles:

Zack Allan, Alfred Bester (Babylon 5), Branmer, Emperor Cartagia, Centauri Minister/Regent, Morgan Clark, Marcus Cole, Vir Cotto, Delenn, Draal, Dukhat, Stephen Franklin, G'Kar, Michael Garibaldi, Jason Ironheart, Susan Ivanova, Warren Keffer, Kosh, Benjamin Kyle, Lennier, Elizabeth Lochley, Lorien (Babylon 5), Susanna Luchenko, Emperor Mollari I, Londo Mollari, Morden (Babylon 5), Na'Toth, Neroon, Pius XV, Lord Refa, Luis Santiago, Anna Sheridan, David Sheridan, John Sheridan (Babylon 5), Jeffrey Sinclair, Laurel Takashima, Turhan, Valen, Lou Welch, Talia Winters, Zathras

Zargulon 15:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• No vote. Probably some of these should be considered minor characters (and merged) while other major characters might warrant their own articles. Really though, I'm fine with whatever editors would like to do, as long as someone is willing to do the work. --Alan Au 16:02, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Appears to be POV nomination based on the presumption that none of the characters are "interesting" enough. Too many articles to lump together into one AfD page. CovenantD 16:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• Whoa! This is a bit severe based on Wikipedia precedent on starring, major, and semi-major characters. I will acquiesce that several of these characters are too minor and NN to qualify for their own articles, but many are blatently not.

  For starters, Delenn, Zack Allen, Stephen Franklin, G'Kar, Michael Garibaldi, Susan Ivanova, Lennier, Londo Mollari, Marcus Cole, John Sheridan, and Jeffrey Sinclair are all major, starring characters — as distinguished in the show's opening credits. They, in no way, fail WP:FICTION for their own pages, and I lean towards assuming bad faith on their nominations. Several others starred in many episodes and are integral characters in the show's several arcs and probably also deserve their own pages, (although not so obviously as the former examples) such as Kosh, Mr. Morden, and Bester.

  I will not, however, contest the merge of several of these articles into their applicable associated characters and episodes; Emperor Mollari I, Jason Ironheart, and Dukhat jump to me immediately. Alternatively, a List of minor characters in the Babylon 5 universe (similar to List of minor characters in the Firefly universe could be established for these imfliential, although minor characters.

  Finally, why were all of these AFD nominations lumped together instead of being nominated separately so as to discuss the worthiness and merits of each individual article on its own? — pd_THOR ^{| =/\=} | 16:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep as per CovenantD and pd_THOR - Rangek 16:32, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• This is Articles for deletion. Only come here if you want an article deleted. Merger does not involve deletion at any stage.

  There's plenty of secondary source material to be had on the subject of the major characters in this television series, and the majority of the articles listed in the nomination are major characters. These articles all should cite sources, so that editors can see that the size of these articles is based upon the amount of secondary source material available. But deletion doesn't achieve that. As per pd_THOR, Keep. Uncle G 17:12, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep all, they are good articles on the whole. Tim! 18:22, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all, with no prejudice on renominating some of the genuinely minor bit characters in separate AFD, but this list includes the key characters. If you want to delete John Sheridan and Jeffrey Sinclair, what's next, going after James T. Kirk and Spock? Fan-1967 18:53, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, possibly individually renominate some of the truly minor ones. Many of these are central characters and clearly notable enough for articles. Examples: Londo +Babylon scores 187,000 Google hits, Garibaldi +Babylon scores 239,000, Sheridan +Babylon scores 912,000, etc. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, bad nomination because it is impossible to separate the wheat from the chaff. Many of the characters are major characters of or play a significan rolls in Babylon 5 and can have their own articles per WP:FICT. --TheFarix (Talk) 19:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep them all, {{fact}}-tagging where statements need citation. Babylon 5 has plenty of wiki-reliable sources for this content. I would not be opposed to combining some of the lesser characters (ones with little or no source-backed text) into a "list of minors" per pd_THOR, but this nomination seems motivated more by disgust with fictional-character articles in general, not because of their sourceable material. I can understand it, as there seem to be many more folks that would like to write about B5 characters than, say, asteroid classifications. But it's not a contest. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 19:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• Comment this looks like a bad-faith nomination or a WP:POINT to get rid of all fictional characters into merged list of characters pages. 132.205.95.44 21:07, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• Comment My opinion is the minor characters should be deleted and the major characters should be merged, but clearly everyone else disagrees. Perhaps we could form consensus around merging the minor characters and keeping the major ones as they are... Zargulon 22:46, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment, This was hashed out over a year ago and later summarized in WP:FICT. It doesn't matter whether you agree with it or not, these are the standards under editors will be judging character articles on. --TheFarix (Talk) 23:53, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Amen to that. But kindly clarify something.. WP:FICT says that non-notable minor characters should be merged into one article. Surely if something is non-notable, it shouldn't be in Wikipedia at all.. or are they specially worthy of inclusion on the grounds that they are fictional characters? Zargulon 00:01, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep, per the obvious precendent of major characters from major media works having their own articles. Would be fine to have a few of those in the rather extensive nomination being combined into a "minor characters of" list, but AFD isn't really needed for that. Kuru ^talk 23:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep! WTF is this? A sudden move to delete this many articles, especially of the series regulars, smells fishy to me. Wl219 05:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - Also, the vote is invalid as it cannot have a vote for multiple articles conglomerated. MSTCrow 06:30, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - Could we keep Zathras seperate. Although only a minor character, the actor who played him, Tim Choate, died on the 24th of September 2004 in a motorcycle accident. He doesnt have a web page for himself up here at the moment, I just think the Zathras page would be a nice one to remember him by. --Dem 08:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per User:Uncle_G. A few of these articles should be merged into a "minor characters" article, but that's irrelevant to this AfD. CWC(talk) 09:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Most of these characters are all characters that are important to the various arcing storylines of B5. Granted I don't know if they all deserve their own pages but they don't deserve outright deletion. Zessa 19:06, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep as a mass nomination - would vote differently on individual articles, but can't support a mass deletion like this. 24.136.38.121 04:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. The show is one thing, but has anyone forgotten the mass of books? It's an entire universe. Bester has two books out of the Psi Corps trilogy written pretty much about him.
• Keep It is...unreasonable to nominate so many characters simultaneously. It is beyond unreasonable when the list includes major characters (i.e., people whose names and/or portraits appear in the opening credits for any season, as another user has commented). If Kirk, O'Neill, and Bauer can have their own articles, Sheridan deserves his own. This should be broken down into individual nominations since there is room for debate on a few of these. There are two big names up there that could be merged by one interpretation of the rules, but doing so would make the entire article a giant spoiler.

  With regards to Zarbulon's comment of 23 July about notability: the minor characters as a class are notable because they are part of something notable. Major characters are notable of themselves. A good analogy would be an organization's website, which may devote a separate page to its leadership while ordinary members get little blurbs on a single page and perhaps links to private sites.--24.178.78.179 08:37, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment I'm not very convinced by this.. there are very few non-notable things which can't be argued to be part of something notable. Zargulon 09:57, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Notable -- Editor is jealous he didnt create these pages? Matthew Fenton (contribs) 09:34, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment You found me out. Zargulon 09:54, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• Comment My detective skills are legendry ;-) Matthew Fenton (contribs) 12:02, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.