Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lyndi Williams

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz ^Humbug! 22:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lyndi Williams

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Opera singer with not much of a notability assertion. This Google search returns nothing worthwhile. Delete. Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 23:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Non-notable. Lots of MySpace entries in Google, but no reviews or performances to establish notability at this time. JavierMC 04:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. No reviews or performances? You obviously haven't researched at all. Your vote may not count. Greenface10 (talk) 17:12, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I was commenting on what I found through my search for references. And if you have added additional sources since my !vote, then don't come here and make broad statements concerning my comment. Not "spidered by google yet" in your below !vote may be an indication that you should AGF in my search. Also, performances at Amarillo Opera? Is this a major or noteworthy accomplishment to establish notoriety? The opera house only opened in 1988 and appears to be a venue for local performers. My !vote above stands.--JavierMC 19:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Again, with all due respect, an honest inquiry will show that the singer in question has had a number of professional accomplishments that are enough to establish her notability. Whatever else the opera house may be used for, Amarillo Opera has been accepted as a professional member of Opera America since 1995, and the performer in question has had a number of major roles in its productions. All this is besides the conformed collaboration with major East-European orchestra on Dec. 13, 2008. The article should remain and a help-improve tag should be posted. Greenface10 (talk) 20:06, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment A paid membership by the opera house to be a member of Opera America^[1] does not make it notable. I'm a paid member of the American Association of Certified Public Accountants, yet I'm not notible for my membership. Her scheduled performance in December 2008 is over two months in the future and whether she makes the scheduled appearance or fails to attend and whether her performance is notable or not is pure WP:CRYSTAL--JavierMC 02:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

~~Strong keep~~ changed to "Delete" (See comment bellow, on the bottom of the discussion)Greenface10 (talk) 17:10, 8 October 2008 (UTC) She has performed significant roles at Amarillo Opera for years, and that can be established through multiple third-party sources, such as those recently added to her external links. There is also a mention of a major appearance with a world-class orchestra on Dec. 13 on this link ( http://www.edwardmanukyan.com/music.html ), which hasn't been spidered by google yet. The article is just being created, give people some time to put more relevant info in it.(Greenface10 (talk) 16:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC))[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 21:20, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Also fails WP:MUSIC. Pinkadelica (talk) 03:23, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep! I apologize for not knowing (when I created the article) that the singer's last name was actually Fisher until last year (marriage-divorce? I'm assuming). There is a pretty big list of opera performance acts and media reviews with her previous name "Fisher". Here's a few articles and concert announcements I have found from www.amarillo.com : http://www.amarillo.com/stories/060108/art_10322575.shtml http://www.amarillo.com/stories/111206/art_5980637.shtml http://www.amarillo.com/stories/062808/fai_10471762.shtml http://www.amarillo.com/stories/071807/our_7939163.shtml There are a few other links showing some competitions she won. But I would really emphasize her confirmed upcoming collaboration on the international scene with a major orchestra as the strongest and final point to establish notoriety. Withoutmusic (talk) 00:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Thank you so much for that. She can also be found on OperaBase: [2] Greenface10 (talk) 00:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I would really like to WP:AGF but considering your sole contribution to wikipedia has been to comment on this deletion and your account was only established after this article was brought to AFD. I think maybe a WP:SSP case is warranted between you and User:Withoutmusic. And again, OperaBase provides no information about the subject of this article beyond her name and a link to a performance there at the Amarillo Opera House. I strongly suggest you read WP:MUSIC.--JavierMC 02:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The links you provide above only show scheduled performers at events and does not provide any information on the subject of this article beyond said schedule. Her upcoming performance on the international scene is over two months away and whether she is still able to attend in two months or not is WP:CRYSTAL.--JavierMC 02:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Preliminary comment User:Greenface10, you are obviously very new to Wikipedia. In fact, you only joined when this article was proposed for deletion and have made no other Wikipedia edits except in this discussion. Deletion discussions are not determined by "votes" at all. They are determined by the merits of the arguments. I strongly urge you to read these important sets of guidelines: Notability and in particular Criteria for musicians and ensembles, Conflict of interest and Deletion, especially these sections, so that you'll have a better understanding of the process. Voceditenore (talk) 02:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been posted to WikiProject Opera. Voceditenore (talk) 02:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Notability is not the same thing as "accomplishments" While I wish Lyndi Williams/Fisher every success in her chosen career, she has not achieved the level of notability required for an article on an opera singer. She:

has not sung even one leading role in a leading opera house or festival (Barbarina is a very small role, as is Lula) and with all due respect to Amarillo Opera, it is not a leading opera house. Membership in a service organization like OPERA America does not automatically confer notability.
has not sung as a soloist with a leading orchestra - the Manukyan event hasn't even happened yet. Wikipedia is not about publicising artists or future events.
has not won or been a finallist in a major singing competetion at national or international level
has had no significant press coverage apart from simple announcements of local concerts in church halls, parks or schools or the simple mention of her name as having sung a particular role, e.g. [3]
has not recorded for a notable classical music label

An artist must have at least one of these, supported by reliable, verifiable published sources which are completely independent of the artist, their employer, or their management. To give you an idea of the kinds of requirements, here are some examples of AfDs for fledgling opera singers that failed: [4], [5], [6] and some that passed: [7], [8]. Voceditenore (talk) 02:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete VdT's analysis seems thorough and, unless that can be contradicted, his conclusion should be definitive almost-instinct 10:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, Voceditenore said it all.Yobmod (talk) 10:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, I may have indeed created this account to take part in this discussion, but I am only interested in and will respond to arguments made against the points I am making, and not my assumed motivations. However, upon having a closer look at the guidelines (Thank you, Voceditenore), I must agree with the decision to take down the article, at least for now. We can then create it when the subject meets the requirements. I don't know how to delete an article yet, so it'd be nice if someone here could do it. Thanks everyone for the input.Greenface10 (talk) 16:58, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Thank you for your understanding. There is no need for you to do anything. An administrator will review the discussion and if it requires deletion, will take care of it. -- Whpq (talk) 18:20, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Voceditenore.Nrswanson (talk) 23:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.