Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lymonnyk

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 09:16, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lymonnyk[edit]

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No WP:RS to attest to its origin. Both of the links are to recipes for lemon pie and happen to be written in Ukrainian, and neither lay claim to the origin. In fact, 'limon' is the Russian word for lemon; 'tsytryna' is the Ukrainian word. The recipe could have originated anywhere, and probably did. It's WP:OR. The only half-way reliable mention is through Google books in Classic Russian Cooking: Elena Molokhovets' a Gift to Young Housewives first printed in the mid-19th century, but the work actually notes that there were non-Russian borrowings in the cuisine, plus the entry for 'Lymonnyk' is not available in the online version. Two other pieces found via Google scholar (here) are unclear. The one in English is an interview with a woman of Russian descent born in America in 1925 who mentions making lymonnyk: her parents were Russians from Ukraine. The other lists English loan words from Ukrainian, Russian, and Polish. 'Lymonka' is listed as a loan word from Ukrainian. It's as clear as mud, and there's no way of establishing that it's an old recipe, nor where it came from. It's lemon pie. Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:56, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 01:03, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 01:03, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or Merge to Lemon tart. I too find no reliable sources. Perhaps there is an issue of translated articles from Russian or Ukranian sources, but even those that did turn up did not appear to be significant - mere word lists, mostly, to my (admittedly) limited ability to read those languages. At best, merge the one line article and its image to the lemon tart article. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 17:58, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or Merge elsewhere. I checked a couple of books on Ukrainian cuisine. This dish is mentioned in one book as "lemon pie" in section "Modern Ukrainian pastries" between "apple pie" and "chocolate pie". It seems to be nothing special/historical. If good reasons are found to keep this article, a reference would be: Л. М. Безусенко, Українська національна кухня. Сталкер, 2002. p. 219, ISBN 966-596-462-3 (in Ukrainian). The recipe in this book looks like what is shown in the pictures on the page (two layers of dough, and a lemon layer in between): Замішують тісто і розділяють його на дві частини. Лимони ошпарюють окропом, охолоджують і разом зі шкіркою натирають на тертці з великими вічками. Одну частину тіста розкачують і кладуть на лист, змащений маслом. На тісто рівним шаром розкладають натерті лимони, посипають цукром і накривають другим шаром тіста, проколюють у чотирьох місцях, змащують яйцем і випікають. BTW, Irina, the Ukrainian cookery books use the word "лимон". --Off-shell (talk) 19:49, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, apologies for not clarifying this further, Off-shell. The word "limon" was brought into the Ukrainian language officially sometime in the mid-20th century. Ukrainian dictionaries replaced "цитрина" during the Russification/standardisation of the Ukrainian language during the Soviet period (interchangeability was eliminated prior 1974 [per Podvezko & Balla; "Radyanska shkola", Kiev, 1974). Naturally, dialects nearer Russia may have adopted or used 'limon' far earlier (but as 'lymon' rather 'limon'?), but it was essentially a loan word in both languages (as with all European languages), with Ukrainian using the same loan word as the Polish "cytryna". "Tsytryna" is still used in my Ukrainian cookery books, plus can be found online at Ukrainian cookery sites (i.e., "цитринова цедра" for 'lemon zest'; "цитринова есенція" for 'lemon essence', +++). If anything, that makes the issue even more confusing. If it has truly been around for a long time, did the Russian name become the favoured name and usurp the Ukrainian naming convention within Ukrainian/Ruthenian regions at some point? If we don't have reasonably reliable sources, we could speculate until the cows come home, but it would still be OR. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:34, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete -- an unremarkable dish. Ru.wiki has an entry for "лимо́нник" but it's about a shrub (Schisandra). Add to that the funky name, and it appears that there's nothing there, or highly dubious. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:25, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 07:16, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.