Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lower Division Clerk

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spinningspark, based on this discussion it appears better to try to include your proposed text in another related article such as Civil Services of India. Sandstein 09:17, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Lower Division Clerk

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This is nothing more than a job title and has never been sourced. There is little encyclopedic about it and wikipedia is not a dictionary CHRISSYMAD ❯❯❯¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 14:29, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. ^Thanks,L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 16:01, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Not a notable position. bd2412 T 20:47, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ad Orientem (talk) 15:06, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom and per ~~L3X1~~ BD2412. Not a notable position, and the article fails to attempt to establish notability. --HunterM267 ^talk 17:32, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Um, I didn't vote or anything, just procedurally sorted the debate into the right categories. ^Thanks,L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 18:52, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies - I read the wrong name in source. --HunterM267 ^talk 23:31, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete no sources whatsoever, and no real claim to notability. The article does little more than define what the position is. Tillerh11 (talk) 18:31, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Some of this could be sourced from Indian Administration (Sixth Edition). Interestingly, The Home Office, 1848-1914, from Clerks to Bureaucrats discusses lower division clerks in the UK government in much more detail. Especially interesting is the history of the reluctance to promote from the lower division, presumably through class prejudice, and how this attitude changed over the years. India's retention of this post is undoubtedly a legacy of British Rule so it would not be unreasonable to include the UK history of the post in the same article. On that basis, I say the subject is notable. SpinningSpark 23:25, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Can that just be merged into Clerk, then? bd2412 T 23:34, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - Not really, it's far too specific for that article. I'm not against a merge to a more appropriate place, but it's clear to me that it is possible to expand this page into a decent article if the historical background is included, so as far as AfD is concerned I remain at keep. SpinningSpark 10:27, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to allow time for more input regarding sources presented later in the discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:11, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

delete I don't care whether this can be sourced: it's obviously not encyclopedic to be writing up garden variety civil service positions simply because the government uses the internet to publish them. Mangoe (talk) 13:31, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete this isn't a job title directory. This is a descriptive title that could apply to any number of jobs. If the content were referenced, it might be appropriate for an article on Clerks in the Government of India, but the existing content is unreferenced and WP:TNT quality. power~enwiki (π, ν) 05:13, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Mangoe and Power~enwiki: The expansion I had in mind would be something like the following. Would this change your mind? SpinningSpark 17:51, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

History

The origins of the post of lower division clerk can be traced to British Rule in India. In the British Civil Service the lower division reflected a class division. Lower division clerks were not expected to be promoted to the higher divisions, one of many grievances that led them to form a staff association to promote their cause.^[1] However, such promotions were not impossible and did sometimes occur under exceptional circumstances. The first clerk to achieve this was Home Office clerk G. H. Tripp in 1884.^[2] The implementation of this structure in the Indian Civil Service took the form of lower division clerks being recruited from Indians and all higher posts being filled by Europeans. Even following independence, upper division clerks were employed by direct recruitment rather than internal promotion. It was not until the late 20th century that it became normal for these posts to be filled by promotion from the lower division.^[3]

References

^ Pellew, pp. 112-114
^ Pellew, p. 102
^ Maheshwari, p. 77.

Bibliography

Perlew, Jill, The Home Office, 1848-1914, from Clerks to Bureaucrats, Fairleigh Dickinson University Press, 1982 ISBN 0838631657.
Maheshwari, S. R., Indian Administration (Sixth Edition), Orient Blackswan, 2001 ISBN 812501988X.

- It doesn't change my position. I still don't know what "division" means in this context. Discussing this on a wider-ranging page that clearly refers specifically to India is a better choice than trying to discuss this specific role separately. Would Civil Services of India be a possible redirect target? power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:56, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[1] Pellew, pp. 112-114

[2] Pellew, p. 102

[3] Maheshwari, p. 77.

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