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The result was delete. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:22, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Maximillian Laumeister

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Cites contain negligible biographical detail, refs to BitListen are passing curiosities, Listen to Wikipedia isn't even anything to do with Laumeister, nothing in a WP:BEFORE. Notability of Laumeister or BitListen is negligible at best. Previous AFD was "no consensus" due to no-one bothering to participate. David Gerard (talk) 15:59, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per WP:GNG, WP:MILL, and WP:SIGCOV. I found five articles on Google News about the subject, three mentions in books. This guy is not even close to being notable. Bearian (talk) 18:37, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Bearian, please note that according to WP:GNG the quality of coverage in verifiable, reliable sources is the determiner of whether something is notable on Wikipedia, not just appeals to numbers - see WP:ARBITRARY. Non-notable is one thing, but the sentiment "not even close to being notable" comes off to me as somewhat reactionary in light of the article's sourcing in mainstream tech media, and the additional source and scholarly paper which I was able to find with just a bit of smart googling. Remember that the guidelines are what determine notability, not WP:IDONTKNOWIT. K.Koopa (talk) 18:36, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ Redirect to BitListen - Changing my !vote from Keep to Redirect. Per Pichpich and Jbh, I am starting to understand that Laumeister himself is not notable as a biographical subject, per se. I stand by what I said about sources establishing notability, but for BitListen rather than Laumeister specifically. K.Koopa (talk) 23:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't feel like I have enough experience to be the final arbiter of notability based on the sourcing, but it's worth noting that I did dig up and add two more secondary sources that reference the subject, including an academic journal article on data sonification that calls the BitListen project "emblematic". The subject is definitely not WP:MILL, as article is not cookie cutter, i.e. does not "resemble [...] other articles by containing mostly the same words with a few fill-in-the-blanks". Regarding WP:SIGCOV, multiple independent reliable sources do address the subject directly, such that "no original research is needed to extract the content", in accordance with the notability guideline. For borderline articles like this one, it's not very informative IMO to just cite guideline pages broadly, see WP:VAGUEWAVE - notability needs to be decided based on the actual content of the guidelines. K.Koopa (talk) 18:36, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

- The sources you added don't seem to talk about the article subject, though. Perhaps there's material for an article on BitListen - but is there any actual substantive coverage of Laumeister? - David Gerard (talk) 19:52, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - David, it appears that in June of this year, you actually quietly removed a citation of a direct media interview with Laumeister using the reasoning "no way is this reliable", though I could find no criteria under WP:PUS or WP:RS that would substantiate such a decision. I also noticed in the edit history that you recently edited a second citation out of the article - the edit was made during this very AfD - with the reasoning "no subject of this article is mentioned in this reference". However, the citation is from a reliable source that indeed substantiates a statement in the article. Please be more careful with your edits in the future.
    
    Whether the references help establish notability is for consensus here to decide - when you remove reliable citations that substantiate information in the article, but that you personally don't believe "show notability", that impedes editors' ability to come to a consensus with full information during this AfD process. I know that what you are doing seems harmless, but to an outsider, it could appear that you are removing information that you personally believe shouldn't be taken into account during the AfD, to tip the AfD in your favor.
    
    For now I have restored the citations and text in question until consensus is reached in this AfD, so that potential AfD contributors will be able to make their own unbiased decisions. If you believe that a source is unreliable due to reasons outside of WP:PUS, please feel free to discuss your concerns on the article's talk page if this article still exists after the AfD, but removing reliably cited sections of the article that you don't agree with during an active AfD is not the way to go about it. Please understand that there will be plenty of time to clean up the article after notability is determined. K.Koopa (talk) 02:54, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - You used 99bitcoins, a ridiculously low-quality cryptocurrency blog, as a source for a BLP. I've removed it again. The bad sourcing remains bad sourcing, and makes the article appear much more puffed-up than its actual Reliable Sources content warrants. The strong sourcing required of WP:BLPs still applies to articles under an AFD - David Gerard (talk) 12:56, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - I understand that the removal itself of the 99bitcoins interview in June was most likely done in good faith, though I can't say I personally agree after reviewing WP:BLPRS, especially since the source is not tied to potentially contentious statements in the article. The issue here is your denial of the source's existence - or did you legitimately forget that you removed that source in June?
        
        At this point if you have specific concerns about the source's reliability, then please elaborate, that's what this discussion is for - it's not enough to just hand-wave and say that the source is "ridiculously low-quality". From a cursory look at the 99bitcoins site, it looks to me like the company's articles are written by paid writers, they have their staff and headquarters listed on their about page, and the founder has guest-blogged on Bitcoin.com, presumably a reliable publication in this space. But again, the quality of the sources in regards to notability is a question for the contributors to this AfD - by reinstating contentious deletions you run the risk of impeding the ability of this AfD to come to an unbiased consensus with full information. The correct way to go about this would have been to mention the source and mention that you removed it in June because you believed it was (un)reliable - not to play dumb and ask me whether any sources directly interview Laumeister after having removed such a source yourself in June.
        
        In regards to the NPR citation you removed, keep in mind that a citation is nothing more than a reliable source that substantiates information in an article. As far as whether a citation should be included in an article, it's not relevant whether the citation "looks like it puffs up" the article - that's a notability question for the editors here in the AfD.
        
        ~~I also noticed that you again deleted the (in my view) unquestionably reliably-sourced paragraph on BitListen's relation to its notable derivative work Listen To Wikipedia.~~ I'm not going to turn this into an edit war, instead I encourage participants in this AfD to compare David's revision with my rollback and form their own opinion. I don't think I am being unreasonable on this - above all we need to keep decisions unbiased in here. I feel like we are very much lacking additional informed viewpoints in this AfD at this point, so I encourage others to weigh in. K.Koopa (talk) 20:41, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - (Striked the above sentence, with my apologies. I didn't realize that Listen To Wikipedia was already mentioned near the beginning of the article. I agree it's reasonable as per your edit not to give it a second mention, regardless of sourcing quality. My other concerns still stand, however.) K.Koopa (talk) 00:22, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - David, with all due respect, it looks like you have a history of deleting information from articles to hide the information from AfD participants. As quoted from a participant in an unrelated AfD: "The point is that we can decide if it's rubbish or not, rather than you telling us that it's rubbish and that we're not to even look at it." [1]. K.Koopa (talk) 21:19, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        No, I remove bad sources when they're bad sources, as I stated. This is a BLP, we don't keep bad sources in the article. An interview in an unreliable promotional publication is not a source that should be considered for a BLP, of all things. This is really basic sourcing stuff, and you're pretending these really basic sourcing rules don't exist - David Gerard (talk) 22:58, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – bradv🍁 23:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Biographical coverage is trivially related to a piece of software that got some "Hey! Neat!" coverage. It does not meet the significant coverage requirement of GNG nor does he meet any of the biographical notability requirements which could be applicable ie PROF (mentioned in 2 papers), ANYBIO, or CREATIVE. Jbh ^Talk 18:53, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and then possibly redirect to BitListen which is the only thing Laumeister is known for. The next questions are of course: "Is BitListen notable?" and "Is Listen to Wikipedia notable?" My first instinct is to say "yes, barely" in both cases. Pichpich (talk) 19:18, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 01:36, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Socialism101

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No notability per WP:WEB. SL93 (talk) 23:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete clear failure to demonstrate NWEB notability. While I found a couple of duplicated entries in like-minded blogs, I didn't find anywhere talking about it, let along in detail etc etc. Nosebagbear (talk) 10:03, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per Nosebagbear (talk). --SalmanZ (talk) 21:55, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nom. Barca (talk) 22:45, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Hainish Cycle. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:24, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Shing

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Poorly cited for 10 years, containing lots of WP:OR. No real world notability. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:11, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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I boldly redirected this to Hainish Cycle yesterday, and I still believe that to be the correct outcome. There is insufficient material for a standalone article. To the best of my knowledge, I have written more GAs and FAs about Ursula Le Guin's work than any other editor. I am very familiar with the source material. The Shing are characters that are only discussed in the context of a single novel, City of Illusions. Any substantive material about them must be covered there of necessity, because it is integral to the plot. All other other mentions of them amount to the fact that they are a brief part of the history of the Hainish universe; as such, that history needs to be covered at Hainish Cycle anyway. There isn't anything else in the secondary literature, and I don't think there ever will be, because there isn't much more in the primary material. Redirect. Vanamonde (Talk) 14:43, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Vanamonde93. Since they seem to be more of an expert on Le Guin's work, and I trust their opinion on this matter. Aoba47 (talk) 17:39, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - it has useful data. It is not currently included in City of Illusions, and includes the significant later remarks by Le Guin. --GwydionM (talk) 07:22, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - this is a well written article which has been worked on by a significant number of editors for over a decade (i.e. has proven ongoing viability). An average daily viewing level of 18 seems respectable. If the concensus is for deletion then the material should be merged with that of City of Illusions instead of redirection to Hainish Cycle as attempted. The latter article ranges across Le Guin's complex parallel universe, containing only a single sentence on the Shing. Buistr (talk) 20:17, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect. Arguments such as it being "useful", "well written", or getting page views are not generally accepted for keeping articles. We need notability from independent reliable sources, which this doesn't appear to have. But page views is a good argument for having a redirect rather than complete deletion. --RL0919 (talk) 14:39, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 21:59, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect per previous arguments, does not appear independently notable._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 23:17, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect possibly as a preface to WP:TNT. There seems to be a decent amount of academic discussion of the Shing as they relate to Le Gunn's body of work (See "Shing"+"Le+Guin"&btnG= this GS search)]) which might justify an independent article. However this article has no relation to that possibility and is rather a bunch of in-universe OR best addressed in Hainish Cycle. Jbh ^Talk 19:05, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (Sorry for any confusion, I got the wrong button when trying to close this) The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 01:36, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

My Son Is Gay

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Does not qualifies WP:NFO or WP:GNG, no signs of notability, no reliable sources found to establish this is a notable movie. thanks QueerEcofeminist^{"cite! even if you fight"!!!} [they/them/their] 15:45, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep the movie has received coverage in WP:RS and meets the criteria of WP:Film. --Harshil169 (talk) 03:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Harshil169, WP:FILM is not a criteria it's a project. You can find criteria for movies WP:NFO here. QueerEcofeminist^{"cite! even if you fight"!!!} [they/them/their] 17:59, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Per sources that are in the article. Even a quick Google search reveal sources such as this and this. SL93 (talk) 15:44, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
SL93, Yes there are news articles but, how that is going to fullfil WP:NFO?? having news is not enough and that doesn't mark the notability. coverage should be for some longer time. Such films are new so they are destined to be reported in news but that doesn't mean they are notable. Probably my understanding of WP:NFO would have been limited, but I would love to hear from you on, how these films are notable under NFO. QueerEcofeminist^{"cite! even if you fight"!!!} [they/them/their] 18:01, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You're actually the second person who I came across recently who confused "Other evidence of notability" as what is required. Those are listed for if the general notability guidelines (WP:N) isn't satisfied which is "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article or stand-alone list." There is no requirement anywhere for needing coverage from a longer time. Not all films appear in the news per my experience in trying to create film articles. SL93 (talk) 18:08, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
SL93, * I will try and ignore your personal comments.
The sources you suggested seems to be unreliable as, Asian Movie Plus is self-publishing (They kind of collect half of the review from you and then add to it)

The Second source (thenewsminute) you suggested is similarly problematic, as their editorial processes are unknown. QueerEcofeminist^{"cite! even if you fight"!!!} [they/them/their] 08:59, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – It seems this film is yet to be released, per this article of The Hindu. BTW, its alternative name is En Magan Magizhvan, which might help in searching the relevant sources, e.g. see here. - NitinMlk (talk) 16:56, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The provided sources need additional discussion, it is unclear if GNG is met.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MrClog (talk) 10:24, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: This is quite notable. Maybe just some simple improvements would bring it up to standard. CLCStudent (talk) 20:55, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ : This is not even officially released in India or anywhere, according to [|this] and [|this]. So I don't know how it fits in to the frame of notability WP:NFF thanks QueerEcofeminist^{"cite! even if you fight"!!!} [they/them/their] 14:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- There is no need for you to vote when you nominated this for deletion. SL93 (talk) 16:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 21:55, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep current references are enough to meet WP:GNG. Pichpich (talk) 19:23, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 22:17, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Jackson (activist)

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No indication of notability per WP:GNG or WP:NBIO. ... discospinster _talk 21:49, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Page should be kept. I've seen tons more that are years old with just 1 article reference and the rest being the person's social medias. Doeke is quite known. Thonkingman (talk) 22:41, 11 August 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thonkingman (talk • contribs) creator of the pageeditor blocked for socking. power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:08, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Fails WP:ANYBIO and believe it is a stunt and a hoax created by WP:MEAT The creator voted keep on Free Republic of Verdis and it was deleted via AfD - see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Free Republic of Verdis. All the editors who voted "keep" started their edits in Wikipedia either on the day or after Free Republic of Verdis was AfDed. One of the voted keep editor 49.199.101.96 indicated on 21:55, July 30, 2019 that User:SwedenAviator is the president of Free Republic of Verdis and this editor was the WP:SOCK and believe Daniel Jackson (activist), is the so called "President" this republic is the president on draft page which were deleted more than 10 times as hoax - see here] and all creators are blocked for WP:SOCK. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 07:53, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - it's not even wrong; he's neither notable nor an activist. Bearian (talk) 17:21, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - There is no evidence that the subject of the article meets any notability standards and there is nothing to suggest he can be considered an activist. Dunarc (talk) 20:49, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete an example of promotional goobledygook. So we count his number of Instagram and YouTube followers as a collective, assuming there is no overlap. That is lieing with statistics if I have ever seen it, worse than the huge $12,000 average annual salary for Yale class of 1935 mentioned in the classic book, OK, I just remember that figure because today it seem absurdly low.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:38, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG clearly not notable.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:02, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG, thanks to Cassiopeia for the analysis. SportingFlyer T·C 07:17, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Cassiopedia. Bookscale (talk) 11:51, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Snow salt block. Enough already. duffbeerforme (talk) 20:33, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not notable. Could be WP:TOOSOON or could be never. Lightburst (talk) 23:56, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG and WP:ANYBIO. VibeScepter (talk) (contributions) 17:30, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closing admin - Creator is a confirmed SOCK - see here where Master SOCK is User:SwedenAviator who creator more than 10 times of [[2]] (Draft:Free Republic of Verdis which has been salted in draft space). Request Republic of Verdis (topic) to be salted as well which at current is redirect to Croatia–Serbia border dispute and salt this AfD topic as well. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 00:24, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. People do not get an automatic free pass over our notability standards for national heads of state just by declaring themselves as founders of unrecognized micronations — even heads of state of real, established and recognized countries still have to pass WP:GNG on evidence of media coverage about them. But none of the sources present in the article even get him off the starting blocks in terms of passing GNG at all. I've seen people try to stake notability on Instagram posts and YouTube videos before, obviously, but trying to stake it on Roblox user groups is a new one on me. Bearcat (talk) 17:16, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 21:53, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of Natural Born Killers characters

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This is extended regurgitation of plot information; no evidence the characters are notable outside of the film, nor any reason this material needs to spun out of the main film article. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 21:38, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No sequel, no list-of needed, and zero sources to go with the overlong character descriptions...please take your film armchair psychiatry recaps elsewhere. Nate • (chatter) 23:14, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Character lists for a single film don't make any sense. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:27, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - This is a completely needless split from the film's main article, and as there is nothing here but unsourced plot summaries, there is nothing worth merging. Rorshacma (talk) 17:03, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete due to insufficient notability of characters to warrant a spin-off article. I would venture that it is possible for there to be standalone articles about the two main characters, but that is unproven here. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 13:02, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per the above. Aoba47 (talk) 18:25, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. That something was a scam does not automatically deny it notability. Sources have been provided suggesting the subject meets WP:GNG, and have not been convincingly refuted. Vanamonde (Talk) 21:57, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

VestiVille

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The “festival” was simply a scam. It was nowhere near the level of Fyre Festival though any music event that has one little managerial issue is now lazily compared to Fyre. Other than that, this is completely unnotable. Trillfendi (talk) 16:16, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - easily notable. Nom is right as regards it being lazily described as like Fyre and getting cheap coverage, but the fact remains that it does have that coverage. NME, IQ, bbc just for a few. Nosebagbear (talk) 13:13, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The article is 3 sentences for God’s sake. There is no sustained notability of it. It fails NEVENT. Nothing about this article is encyclopedic nor valuable to the encyclopedia. Trillfendi (talk)

Those are completely different delete grounds than you originally proposed - I'll have a look on the NEVENT now, length isn't grounds for delete - there's loads of sourcing, and you can easily expand it. Nosebagbear (talk) 15:49, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Length had nothing to do with deletion, it’s clearly a statement of how poor the article is and the fact that it was so uneventful that only 3 sentences could be formed about it (a lot of the artists in the so-called “lineup” weren’t even verifiable), one of them being that it was “Fyre 2.0”.Trillfendi (talk) 15:52, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am disinclined to say NEVENT disqualifies it. Obviously there was an immediate rush of sources. Then there was about a month's pause, and various comparison re-considerations/compare & contrasts started coming out: the IQ source above, france inter, Pollstar (even discounting the various direct/indirect quoted 3rd party analysis), given that's within a week, that's about as broad a temporal coverage as we can get at this point. We have international coverage, thus showing depth, breadth and reasonable duration. Nosebagbear (talk) 16:01, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And it hasn’t been reported on in a month.... Trillfendi (talk) 16:17, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

the IQ source was written on the 1st of August, only 4 days ago? Nosebagbear (talk)

Wow, an article about Woodstock 50 and a bunch of other festivals. Groundbreaking. Trillfendi (talk) 16:49, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Blazing insight and dramatic analysis aren't needed Nosebagbear (talk)

Delete a fesitival that didnt happen needs really good coverage to be notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 07:34, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why? There's an event whether the event is "VestiVille" or "Cancellation of VestiVille" - in lieu of there being an NFESTIVAL, there aren't any different criteria for these two. The same level of coverage is needed Nosebagbear (talk) 12:23, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Scott Burley (talk) 21:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Being a scam/or getting canceled does not strip it of notability, it may actually give it more publicity (read: substantial coverage) than if it were a real event/or if it held. It's not even clear that it was a scam (BBC says it was canceled "because of safety issues") but the nom implied that it was a scam with apparent certainty but not a single evidence. But what's more important is that there are multiple reliable sources giving it in depth coverage [3], [4], [5]. – Ammarpad (talk) 07:49, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If it wasn’t a scam then why were they using false advertisement of Cardi B voice used in the “promo” video (sound familiar) if she was really on the lineup? Oh but she couldn’t have been anyway because she was touring festivals in England at that time then was forced to pull out of those shows to recover from botched surgery. Red flag number one. But I’m just making shit up right? It’s not like no one could see this play out in real time. A “festival” with little to no information about itself and no infrastructure yet claiming it’s booking big names is called fraud. The “coverage” you offer isn’t “in depth” on anything; they’re only more Fyre Festival comparisons and a bunch of tweets! MILL. The festival is not going to get in depth coverage from something like Vanity Fair or the New York Times because WP:LASTING. Trillfendi (talk) 00:03, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1. I am afraid, I have no idea who "Cardi B" is; not least what he does and I have no interest to know. I am not in the position to judge "scamness" of the event. What I know is the city's mayor, through the BBC said the event was canceled "because of safety issues." Neither the Mayor nor the BBC and not even Wikipedia called the event a scam.

2. My 3 sources are well known media companies, I did not link to any Tweet. I began to wonder whether you really read my sources or you're confusing them with a tweet elsewhere.

3. Illegality of event/action does not strip it of notability in anyway. I have said this and I am repeating it. Otherwise, we would not have articles on murder and scam. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:15, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

She’s only a Grammy-winning artist with 3 number one hits who the festival “claimed” was the headliner to lure their victims to the middle of nowhere with no intention of giving them a real show (ah, that’s called a scam) due to their obvious entire lack of planning to actually do a festival and refuse to give refunds. Now clearly I said the articles given relied on some embedded tweets to give accounts of the day. That’s not in depth whatsoever. It’s no more than what entertainment news sites like do everyday for celebrity gossip. The 5 sentences of this article don’t go “in depth” about it either. The reality is the event (or lack thereof) was does meet notability to have a Wikipedia article about it. The difference between this and the cancelled Woodstock 50 is breadth and quality of the coverage. And what do we have here? That Buzzfeed atrocity can’t even be called journalism. It’s a listacle of memes and tweets ffs. Trillfendi (talk) 20:31, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There are a lot of sources in French, including some from particularly reliable outlets such as Le Soir (already used in the article), the RTBF [6] and France Inter [7] (note that the latter was published a full month after the event so there's a hint that coverage is lasting). There's also a fairly detailed report published 10 days after the fact that includes info about the aftermath (including the arrest and release of two organizers, possible reimbursements, and so on) and would be an excellent source to expand the article.[8]. There's also coverage in Flemish including a "how did it all go wrong" analysis, written two weeks after the event, in the very reliable NRC Handelsblad. Pichpich (talk) 20:15, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 21:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Glen Ridge Lacrosse

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This is a non-notable high school sports team. Any encyclopedic material should be merged to Glen Ridge High School. Alansohn (talk) 20:50, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Alansohn (talk) 20:50, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Alansohn (talk) 20:50, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. US high school sports teams are not notable, and the lengthy history section is egregiously under-sourced. power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:10, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete high school sports teams never are notable enough to have seperate articles.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:44, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and redirect to Glen Ridge High School. High school sports teams rarely receive enough third-party coverage and this is no exception. Note that 4 of 7 current references are to the team's website and the other three are routine coverage in local newspapers. If the article is kept, it should be cleaned up because the tone is not always neutral. (e.g. "This is showing that Carl Houser and the Glen Ridge program are building a winning tradition and consistent success year in and year out.") Pichpich (talk) 21:07, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 21:59, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

International Coalition for GeoInformatics

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the original article from 2005 [9] received zero citations after 15 years.[10] a blog post by the lead autor (J. Klump) declared the initiative defunct 10 years ago.[11] fgnievinski (talk) 20:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 20:51, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Couldn't find any sources aside from the announcement paper already linked in the citations, with the exception that the subject was referenced once with a short background in a book preface on google books (titled "American Paleontologist"). I don't see any good sourcing on google search/news/archives. Seems to fail WP:GNG for this reason. Do remember that notability is WP:NOTTEMPORARY, so if it was notable in the past it's still notable, however my belief is that it probably was not ever notable. K.Koopa (talk) 21:03, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions. IntoThinAir (talk) 23:24, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:NORG and WP:GNG. I see no evidence it was ever a going concern or, if it was, that it got any coverage or recognition either in general or within its field. Jbh ^Talk 19:28, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Death of Jeffrey Epstein (I've redirected the article, merging can be done from the article history). Having read through the discussion (as well as the discussion at the other AFD, which is ongoing) there's a clear consensus at this time to merge any appropriate content into the Death of Jeffrey Epstein article, which was created on Aug 13, after this AFD started. I note many of the keep votes are prior to this new article being created, and sufficient editors changed their opinion in this AFD as a result to find in favour of merging rather than outright keeping the article as is. Acknowledging the recentness of this event, it seems prudent to remind all involved to observe our not news policy, and the recentism supplementary explanation to NPOV, when deciding what content to merge. I note that the AFD on the merge target is still open for another day, at this time consensus seems in favour of keeping that article, but that's for someone else to decide at the appropriate time. (non-admin closure) Steven Crossin ^{Help resolve disputes!} 02:20, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Post AFD closure, content has continued to be added. I have redirected to the merge target, any content that should be merged can be done from the last revision. Steven Crossin ^{Help resolve disputes!} 11:55, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jeffrey Epstein death conspiracy theories

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An unnecessary fork of Jeffrey Epstein, where a line or two stating that conspiracy theories exist would suffice. bd2412 T 20:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This article details an emerging phenomenon. Plenty of reliable sources are covering the existence of conspiracy theories and, although it is unclear how long they will persist, at the moment it looks sufficiently notable. Consequently, it is too early to make a decision. Philip Cross (talk) 20:53, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If it is too early to make a decision, how can it already be sufficiently notable? bd2412 T 20:57, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's three days later now, and this article still doesn't relay a single conspiracy theory. The emerging notable phenomena from reliable sources are skepticism and baseless accusation, either against a lone suspect or a generic glob of Russians and "rich and powerful". Just an indiscriminate collection of unconnected dots, unless we're discriminating by proximity to Trump. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:03, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

KeepOther death conspiracy theory pages exist, such as Princess Diana. That warranted another page and many others, like MLK. It is a very notable topic, even the President of the United States is tweeting about it. Discussion of conspiracies is best kept off his biographical page, as has been done with JFK and RFK. It is mentioned, but only further explored on their corresponding conspiracy theories articles. There is a vast precedent for it, and as more days pass, more information will be published. For those reasons I fully support keeping this article. HAL333 21:21, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Donald Trump tweeting about something does not make it notable, especially how much he tweets on things. Anyway here the question is not notability per se, but demonstrating that a seperate article is needed.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:55, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Agree with OP this is an unnecessary fork. I would add that it has the potential for POV problems as well. There is no reason the reactions to the apparent suicide can't be included in Epstein's bio for now. petrarchan47 คุ ก 21:37, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Death of Jeffery Epstein petrarchan47 คุ ก 17:20, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge, but not to the Epstein article, where we are trying to keep this stuff to a minimum. Merge it to List of conspiracy theories, where we have similar material about the Clintons and others. I was going to propose this, but I thought I would wait until the news cycle moves on; then we can trim this and put it where it belongs. Merge it to Death of Jeffrey Epstein now that that article exists and contains a thorough exposition of the subject. The conspiracy theories should be a section at that article rather than a standalone article. -- MelanieN (talk) 22:08, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep. There is clearly a need for this article. The official narrative of suicide seems to be widely questioned in the media and by politicians on both sides of the political spectrum. People on the right are blaming the Clintons and people on the left are blaming Trump and the Russians. The main Epstein article isn't an appropriate place for all of this information, so a separate article is absolutely necessary. Rreagan007 (talk) 22:09, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, There is notability surrounding this topic from a variety of sources. This isn't a one person/one group conspiracy, there are many types from both different sides. Having a completely different article makes sense as it lists all of the possible ones in an appropriate location that doesn't end up cluttering the main page. 216.106.148.248 (talk) 22:12, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - There is a clear need of this article as this article can be kept in a neutral state, (in other words, this isn't a one-sided conspiracy theory). Deleting the article would be a clear bad idea... whose bright idea was it anyway? M.W.B.A.B.^{Talk to me!} 23:10, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Death of Jeffrey Epstein.Keep and later merge into Death of Jeffrey Epstein. Notable enough for its own article, but now that we also have the other article, that would be a good target for a merge. -- BullRangifer (talk) 23:34, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete The man hasn’t even had an autopsy yet people want to make conspiracy theory articles about his death? Absurdly inappropriate. If a federal investigation finds suspicious activity on his death then include it in HIS article. Fuck’s sake it hasn’t even been 2 days. Trillfendi (talk) 23:58, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Trillfendi, your sense of indignation about the existence of conspiracy theories so soon, helped by Trump jumping right in the thick of it to encourage it, is justified, but that reality has ZERO bearing on the creation of articles here. Do multiple RS discuss the matter? Yes, and that creates enough notability that we have no choice but to deal with it, including writing an article. That articles like this sometimes get incoporated into the main article is another matter. I suspect that doing that would create a due weight problem here, so this is a legitimate WP:SPINOFF sub-article. -- BullRangifer (talk) 02:28, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No, Trillfendi makes a good point. We have a "conspiracy theory" before any of the official investigations are complete. That's absurd.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:31, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it's absurd, but that speaks to why the article is important.--Nowa (talk) 17:16, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Check out the Template:Conspiracy_theories - this one definitely belongs. It will surely be improved as more is known. Bangabandhu (talk) 00:07, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It's a useful article, especially as details emerge. If there is room on Wikipedia for articles like this one , then there is room for the article at hand. Don't be in a rush to delete. Count Robert of Paris (talk) 01:49, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There are still official investigations ongoing, so there isn't really the basis for a conspiracy theory yet. All we have is off-the-cuff reactions from various people. Any opinion might change when more evidence comes in. It's completely premature to have an article about it. The fingerpointing in all directions also confirms there is no considered theory about the death, and there is no theory how he was murdered. I think if the death becomes a major ongoing issue, we should have a neutral article about the death, not this.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:53, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- We actually have a great deal more than just "off-the-cuff" reactions. We know he was on suicide watch after being found in his cell with injuries several weeks ago. We also have people close to him that have said he had been attacked and feared for his safety. There are also reports that say guards didn't make their rounds properly to check on him, that video cameras malfunctioned, that he was prematurely taken off suicide watch, and that successfully hanging oneself in a prison cell like the one he was in would have been exceedingly difficult. We also have the President of the United States, Attorney General, and multiple congressmen from both parties that have signaled their skepticism that it was a suicide. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:23, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
These are all fine facts, assertions, assumptions and doubts upon which a theory could be built, in theory. But have any taken shape yet? Article currently suggests no. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:29, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. But the fact that he was on suicide watch, and was taken off, actually supports the contention he committed suicide. Do we have any evidence that supports an assassination?--Jack Upland (talk) 09:28, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

True, but this article is about conspiracy theories, not about whether or not a particular explanation of his cause of death makes sense.--Nowa (talk) 17:20, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And so far there is no theory.--Jack Upland (talk) 20:52, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, but rename to "Death of Jeffrey Epstein", and include both the circumstances of his death and the conspiracy theories. We have many articles on the particular death circumstances of people when these circumstances are notable. In the case of Epstein, there is no doubt that this is the case. --mrincodi
- That's not a bad idea, but I would suggest that be handled over at WP:REQUESTED MOVES after this AfD has concluded. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:15, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Support creation of two separate articles; one for conspiracy theories, one for reported suicide. MarvellingLiked (talk) 03:03, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - That would merely implement even more forking. If there were an article on Epstein's death, which is not unreasonable, it could reasonably include a few lines on conspiracy theories, but to give them excessive space would lend the undue impression that even the most outlandish of these are serious possibilities. bd2412 T 03:30, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - bd2412 That doesn't make any logical sense. Under that reasoning, nearly all articles regarding conspiracies should be deleted. These aren't fringe theories by conspiracy nuts either. Nearly all of these theories have some degree of support by Senators, Presidents, and respected journalists.HAL333 03:56, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - The articles that we do have on conspiracies have serious literature that has developed around them. This one has flash-in-the-pan news going off of social media. Obviously a Death of Jeffrey Epstein article could cover them in somewhat greater detail than the main Epstein article, but there is no need to rehash all rumored connections between either the Clintons or the Trumps and Epstein, nor to cite every talking head or minor public official who tweets an opinion. bd2412 T 04:02, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        bd2412 Usually when things have happened a day ago, there isn't serious literature on it. All new articles based on current events can't cite literature and thus rely on news sources. By your reasoning, Wikipedia articles can't exist until books have been written on the topic. The death happened a day ago, as time passes, stronger sources (and eventually books) will become available for use.HAL 333 04:09, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        We have a policy exactly addressed to this situation: WP:NOTNEWS. bd2412 T 04:11, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        Actually, that does not address the situation whatsoever. Nowhere in WP:NOTNEWS does it say that literature is required for conspiracy articles, which is this "exact situation." Let us further discuss this in the talk page. Thanks HAL 333 04:21, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        I think this indicates we should have a "Death" article before we have a "Conspiracy theories" article. There isn't yet enough information to have a genuine "conspiracy theory" about the topic.--Jack Upland (talk) 11:54, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep Clearly notable enough for an independent article. MarvellingLiked (talk) 02:29, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Coverage of conspiracy theories isn't unusual and this is a case that has a lot of them, with suitable references to go with them. Spengouli (talk) 03:35, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Highly relevant in reinforcing the zealous, hypocritical partisanship of contemporary American politics. Tajiki0013 (talk) 06:45, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No apparent theories about conspiracy, just implications of contract killings. Could still be a political conspiracy, I suppose. But not civil or criminal. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:10, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Obviously notable subject, due to the large amount of coverage. Objections about the article's title ("No apparent theories about conspiracy") are not grounds for deleting the article. The article could be renamed if that were really necessary. Freeknowledgecreator (talk) 08:46, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't mind a new title, only figured the content (or even just the prime cuts) could about as easily be transferred to a whole new article. One that didn't begin by missing the point of its own existence. Salvaging things is great in the non-renewable world, but burning it all and starting fresh is advisable when feasible, I say. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:16, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Rename might be better under the title Death of Jeffrey Epstein. Benjiphillips (talk) 11:28, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep/rename, especially given the length of the Jeffrey Epstein article. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 12:44, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep/rename as~~ Merge to Death of Jeffrey Epstein. Conspiracy angle is well-reported, but starting with this topic is putting the cart before the horse. His death and the conspiracies that followed are becoming too significant a topic to be covered in the main article alone and should be forked per WP:SPINOFF. StonyBrook (talk) 13:42, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note The "Death of" article should be ample to house the conspiracies for now. If a WEIGHT problem ensues at a later time due to an expansion of that topic it can be spunoff at that time. And there isn't enough content on the death alone to keep that one as a standalone article without the conspiracies included. StonyBrook (talk) 16:11, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep/Rename, in light of the public interest relevance of this topic. Whether or not we agree with the conspiracy theories should not be used to argue for or against this page; rather, we should look at it from the simple fact that this topic is most definitely notable enough for a page. However, I would myself prefer to see this page renamed (as said by a few others) to Death of Jeffrey Epstein. The circumstances of his death, whether suicide or not, and whether orchestrated by another party or not, are certainly of notable interest and might be better described by an overall page regarding the death rather than simply the conspiracies. If I am not mistaken, it's usually best to create a page about the death of someone before a page about conspiracies regarding that death. NomadicNom (talk) 13:46, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: This concerns a highly publicized event that is a nigh universal subject of conspiracy theories. Elvis, Hitler and Walt Disney have nothing on this one. DÅRTHBØTTØ_(T•C) 14:50, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. At least some of these theories are notable - mainly because the promoter is the President. Do not rename. Just "Death" is a different subject. My very best wishes (talk) 16:25, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but rename Death of Jeffrey Epstein, just like we have Death of Michael Jackson and others. Lots of prominent deaths spark conspiracy theories, this one should not be treated differently. Trim the recentist opinion deluge… — JFG ^talk 16:31, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- The amazing thing is that with him being dead less than 72 hours we have comments on his death that pre-date that.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Extensive media coverage and RS shows notability. Compare to Death of Diana, Princess of Wales conspiracy theories. Wqwt (talk) 16:41, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Which was written 2 years after Death of Diana, Princess of Wales. StonyBrook (talk) 17:25, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep This page is precisely what makes Wikipedia such a powerful tool. As an epiphenomenon, (which the abounding theories about his death certainly is) these conspiracy theories are no less real than the phenomenon of his death. Speculation, theories, points-of-discussion, etc. can rise to the level of distinct "topics" just as much as singular, touchable events. Having a page about these conspiracy theories is obviously not the same as giving them an imprimatur of "fact." And they are a secondary phenomenon, and shouldn't necessarily share space with Epstein's bio page--at least not yet. That said, I haven't studied Wikipedia's guidelines. CitationPursuer (talk) 17:13, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep/ No rename Important material for people that want a summary. Be very careful about BLP, however.Nowa (talk) 17:14, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep = POTUS has pushed, and will almost certainly continue to push, this nonsense. Bearian (talk) 17:24, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Other conspiracy theory articles exist, such as 9/11 ones. If we degree this one, do we go about deleting the others like it too? —LRG5784 (talk · contribs · email) 18:44, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This shouldn’t even have to be called out but "We should keep it because the president is helping to spread conspiracy theories about his friend on the bird app" is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in months (if you see what goes on around here daily, you know that’s saying something). This is the same person who also spreads lies about his own father’s birth, claimed Ted Cruz’s father killed Kennedy, and that "climate change is a Chinese hoax". That doesn’t give credence to it. This is asinine. What happened to standards? Policy? Reliable sources are negating this. Trillfendi (talk) 19:10, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't about "credence", but notability. Absurdity often contributes to notability, and when someone as notable (infamous) as Trump chimes in, that unfortunately ups the notability of the most absurd things. He scrapes the bottom of the barrel and places things that should be ignored and hidden into the limelight. It's sad, and it's our job to document it. Then there are many others, and many RS which discuss this, so we're easily over the threshold that requires us to cover it. -- BullRangifer (talk) 19:21, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ya can’t convince me that these conspiracy theories became “notable” merely 13 hours after his death was announced. Trillfendi (talk) 20:19, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not necessarily each one, but the subject of conspiracy theories surrounding the death of Epstein, that subject is notable. Notability isn't always dependent on long periods of time. Sometimes it happens fairly fast, depending on the RS, and it is RS, not our ideas of what is reasonable, that are the guideline at Wikipedia. -- BullRangifer (talk) 23:51, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I just want to point out that the (I agree asinine) things that Trump tweeted that Trillfendi mentioned were all made while he was a candidate. Now he is President of the United States and his tweets are official White House statements/^[1] HAL 333 19:46, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The president has lied on record almost 11,000 times as president.... Trillfendi (talk) 20:19, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Every president has lied due to certain things being confidential, but yes, Trump has lied for other reasons. I doubt the 11,000 figure is correct though, as there are several reports of some of his statements being misinterpreted as lies by the mainstream media and other sources. However, blaming Bill Clinton for a pedophile's suicide is likely a falsehood. Kirbanzo ^{(userpage - talk - contribs)} 20:23, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think in this case it is just a Trump retweet.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:12, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep/rename maybe Notable enough plus like others said, there are many articles about other notable conspiracies.Antonio Numero 47 Martin (wish me a happy birthday here maybe?) 19:53, 12 August, 2019 (UTC)
Strong Keep Strong keep for the time being; article is long enough to merit its own page instead of a section on that of Epstein. Potentially revisit this decision in a few months with the benefit of more hindsight and perspective. Porphyro (talk) 19:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep - Notable death, plus these conspiracies have made several rounds around the Internet. I also believe keeping this article may help prevent said conspiracy theories for being taken as truth. Kirbanzo ^{(userpage - talk - contribs)} 20:23, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- As far as I can tell the only notable political figure who has directly weighed in is Trump. The low level person mentioned as "maybe" inplicating Hillary, has a very long minor title, and it is less clear what she was saying. The "cable news commentator" mentioned I believe lacks an article. I guess Giuliani says he is not convinced this was a suicide, but that is not quite the same as a conspitracy theory. The fact that DeSantis who order the investigation before Epstain died was said to have done so in reaction to his death shows that failure of NPOV is leading to failure of accuracy to try to make more things fit into this article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:30, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep - meets notability guidelines, many high-profile figures on both sides of the political spectrum are involved.— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 20:38, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with JFG and StonyBrook. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:17, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Snow Keep - dozens of reliable sources, obviously meets the general notability guidelines. I can't think of any good reason why the readers shouldn't have access to information about a subject that many readers are obviously looking for, and - more importantly - that we have reputable, sourced material describing in detail. Obviously the conspiracy theories are exactly that, but that's exactly how the article refers to them. Vanilla Wizard 💙 23:21, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Epstein is hardly even cold. It is too soon to justify an article on conspiracy theories around his death. If we get worthwhile continuing coverage it might be worth creating one, but right now this is too much reporting of twitter posts on off hand comments.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:55, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment with the actual investigation into the apparent suicide not even complete, the autopsy is not complete for example, so I am not sure we even can say this was clearly not a death due to natural causes yet, conspracy theories just do not make sense at this point. Not that a third of the article is about people who spouted conspiracy theories about what caused Epstein to die before he did. I would also point out that there are not "two sides" to this story. There are lots of sides to this story. Don't forget those of us who were always Never Trmup, Never Hillary. We would be inclined to believe that Donald and Bill jointly agreed to knock off Jeffrey before we delieved that one person knocked him off. Also note that there are theories saying it was British interests that knocked him off. I also am thinking a search of wherever Israelis do their twittering would bring up theories that Shimon Peres was involved.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:01, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Why does nobody ever suspect Toronto or Ottawa in New York shenanigans? Could literally hit the state with a rock from Southern Ontario, without even throwing it sometimes. Wake up, eh! InedibleHulk (talk) 06:19, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If Barr pushes through an indepth investigation that will not build towards conspiracy theories but kill the winds behind them. I think we should have a balanced article on the death, not an article on conspracy theories. Especially when none of these accusations in any way seem to identify who would have been the real killer.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:07, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Do you really think that people who believe in the conspiracy theories surrounding Epstein's death will believe the conclusions of the FBI's investigation? Rreagan007 (talk) 03:01, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - I was going to say yes if the results are well publicized. After Arquette, Michael Moore and Takei weighed in I have come to the conclusion that fringe nuts are going to push this incident to advance their own agendas no matter what the DOJ, the FBI, the NYPD and anyone else who investigates concludes. Still a flippant tweet by a nut like Moore is not a fully developed conspiracy theory.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:17, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This article indulges in using twitter as sourcing, which is very problematic.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:12, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's very problematic. Joe Scarborough has said he was only being "glib" when he made his comment. Trump only retweeted the Clinton conspiracy theory tweet. His spokespeople have said that he wasn't endorsing it. Which notable person actually believes these conspiracy theories?--Jack Upland (talk) 08:38, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I guess either the article was not clear enough or I didn't read close enough. Retweeting and starting a tweet are two different things, and Trump doing the former is a lot less significant than the latter. Some people retweet to mock others not endorse them. Off hand remarks need to not be given more coverage then they deserve.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:25, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment On the other hand since #Clintonbodycount trended after Epstein's suicide attempt which closely connected with reveals of the Clinton/Epstein connection, and the huge document dump the day Epstein died, I am not sure that conspiracy theories with Epstein are limited to his death. I think Acosta once said something about how he thought Epstein had "inteligence" connections. There are lots of conspiracy theories about Epstein, including him maybe getting his teaching job from attorney Barr's father that do not directly relate to his death. I have been trying to understand Epstein since Acosta resigned, and have come to realize that far too little is known to understand him. There is a whole set of theories that say he made his money in connection with a 1990s ponzi scheme.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:26, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Friendly reminder The short form of "conspiracy theory" is "theory", not "conspiracy". InedibleHulk (talk) 04:01, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Nice try, Clintons — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:8AE0:6400:483C:A865:996D:15F (talk) 05:02, 13 August 2019 (UTC) — 2600:1700:8AE0:6400:483C:A865:996D:15F (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Weak keep The article has some merit outside of the biography, as others others have pointed out, and I am in agreement that the title of the article needs to be addressed. This isn't really a conspiracy that he died, it's more to acquire the facts about his death. Govvy (talk) 11:34, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

*Speedy Keep Conspiracy theories about Jeffrey Epstein's death are widely circulated in media outlets and on the Internet, and thus said phenomenon merits documentation per the cited sources, just like the plethora of conspiracy theories surrounding the death of President John F. Kennedy in 1963. Scott Shelby (talk) 14:00, 13 August 2019 (UTC) strike sock vote -- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 21:23, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep The conspiracy theories are so widely circulated that they are notable, although I would propose either merging it into the article Death of Jeffrey Epstein or merging that article into this one.SpidersMilk, Drink Spider Milk, it tastes good. (talk) 18:32, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Wikipedia is not the place for fringe conspiracy theories, whether they are published in reputable sources or not. Most of the theories listed are things that people made up afterwards based on pure speculation. Inter&anthro (talk) 20:12, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Inter&anthro: This is not what WP:FRINGE says. Should make them seem more notable than they are, but they can still be notable. - Scarpy (talk) 21:54, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Inter&anthro, you've been here long enough to know better. Have you really forgotten why we are here and the job Jimbo gave us? Our job is to document "the sum total of human knowledge,"^[2]^[3] and editors must not leave or create holes in our coverage. Human knowledge includes far more than facts. It includes a whole lot of crap like pseudoscience, lies, scams, and conspiracy theories. If they are notable, we must document them or we have failed at our mission. Fortunately, our method of documentation also serves a valuable purpose, because we also provide the truth of the matter, IOW we also end up debunking the nonsense. -- BullRangifer (talk) 23:37, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Inter&anthro: Completely disagree, some of these conspiracy theories are very notable. Specifically, the Clinton connection is being pushed by Donald Trump.Kokpep (talk) 06:55, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I can't read it because I have already exhausted my NYT use for the month, but here [12] is a New York Times editorial on Epstein and conspiracy theories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:40, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Johnpacklambert: If you read it with AMP, the cookies can’t track you. Trillfendi (talk) 22:06, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Johnpacklambert: You can hit the "reader" icon in your browser and it will bypass all ads as well as your limit. petrarchan47 คุ ก 17:25, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

delete Jeffrey Epstein death conspiracy theories, keep Death of Jeffrey Epstein which is also in the process of an AfD. - Scarpy (talk) 22:00, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Jeffrey Epstein. The material is notable but too sparse as yet to require a stand-alone article. If the Epstein article gets too long and there is too much sourced conspiracy material, it could be split out in the future. Edison (talk) 22:33, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think that sub-discussions regarding whether or not to include information about the conspiracies in the Death of Jeffrey Epstein article might be best suited for a separate discussion from this one, perhaps as a standalone merge/rename discussion following the closure of this discussion (It looks increasingly unlikely that a consensus for deletion will emerge any time soon, given how far the keep:delete ratio is from being 50-50, much less leaning in favor of deletion). I think a consensus for Merging/Renaming very well might exist, but many of the !votes don't mention any thoughts on whether or not to pursue this option (as that is not what was being proposed) so it would be much harder to find a clear consensus for it in this thread. Vanilla Wizard 💙 22:40, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Vanilla Wizard makes a good point. A non-standard occurrence happened here whereas an appropriate article that can host the conspiracy content (for now), Death of Jeffrey Epstein, was created in the middle of this AfD, prompting me to adjust my vote from Keep to Merge. The "Death of" article was also nominated for deletion, so I voted Keep there for consistency. I don't know what the mechanism would be to re-poll this question under the new reality, but it should be done if possible. StonyBrook (talk) 22:56, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This isn’t based on a popular vote, it’s supposed to be a discussion where ideas are weighed. Trillfendi (talk) 22:48, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep per other notable conspiracy theory articles that exist. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 23:46, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Devalues Wikipedia. Pure speculation. Embarrassing stuff. Don't drag us down. Merge if you have to. JMK (talk) 23:53, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge (selectively, why do we have so much detail:)) to Death of Jeffrey Epstein, no need to have both articles. Coolabahapple (talk) 02:39, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Death of Jeffrey Epstein and into main article. Swil999 (talk) 06:30, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This article continues to grow day after day. By merging you would risk mixing up the conspiracies with the facts. The merged article would have to be overly condensed. 2600:1700:B9D0:1990:749A:55AC:F2AC:A12D (talk) 06:44, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article has stabilized and hovered around 40,000 since a 10-megabyte blast on the afternoon of the twelfth. Still no theories, though. Foster might be close. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:47, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All we have are a few tweets, which could be summarised in a couple of sentences.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:55, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Death of Jeffrey Epstein. Benjamin (talk) 10:57, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Death of Jeffrey Epstein. There's definitely significant coverage of conspiracy theories surrounding his death, but those should be covered in the main Death of Jeffrey Epstein article instead of having what is essentially a WP:POVFORK. – Anne drew 14:28, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Death of Jeffrey Epstein as per comment reply Keep: I think it's clearly notable and not violative of WP:FRINGE, but I don't think it should be merged into Death of Jeffrey Epstein because that might imply that these conspiracy theories have credibility. Cosmic Sans (talk) 14:51, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There isn't much of a credibility problem as long as they are kept separate from the general content under a separate heading. On the contrary, the bigger credibility problem is having an entire article of half-baked conspiracy theories so early in the process. If and when these become more defined in the future is when the conspiracy article should be written. StonyBrook (talk) 16:36, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's reasonable. I changed my vote to Merge based on your comment. Cosmic Sans (talk) 17:17, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It's worth keeping these views around, at least until more news emerges, to demonstrate the social effect that this event has had. ~~It also maintain's Wikipedia's neutrality by acknowledging differing explanations of events in a context where we don't know how much more information we will get.~~ (This was poor argument on my part.) This page also needs to exist due to the sheer notability of it. If these theories were believed by a very small amount of the population paying attention, then this article would certainly have very little merit to exist. However, with as much attention and reckoning that these conspiracy theories have been receiving, they have become notable. The Amazing Matt (talk) 17:45, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/06/politics/trump-tweets-official-statements/index.html
^ Battles, Matthew (July 12, 2012), Wikipedia and the sum of human knowledge, metaLAB (at) Harvard, retrieved October 22, 2015 {{citation}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
^ Jerney, John (October 22, 2002), The Wikipedia: The encyclopedia for the rest of us, The Daily Yomiuri, retrieved October 22, 2015 {{citation}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
Quote: "In particular, the goal of the Wikipedia is to produce the best encyclopedia encapsulating the sum total of human knowledge.... [It] offers the possibility of everything being written into history, with all of mankind sharing knowledge and information in a way that enables everyone to profit from it." — Wikipedia:Testimonials

Comnent Somewhere I saw some gibberish about an Epstein body double. I don't think that is a notable theory but there will always be some doubters.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:20, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Death of Jeffrey Epstein. While citations support mentioning this nonsense, I do not believe it needs it own article with such UNDUE length. The content can be preserved but discussed below the facts of the entire situation. Reywas92^Talk 21:52, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Jeffrey Epstein death conspiracy theories as both are forks of tightly connected topics. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 00:31, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Tons of coverage in reliable sources and this wouldn't be the first death conspiracy theory page. Meatsgains^(talk) 01:59, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Death of Jeffrey Epstein. Unnecessary to have a separate article for the conspiracy theories, at least at this time, especially given how recent the event is. – Wallyfromdilbert (talk) 02:42, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Death of Jeffrey Epstein: I've been watching this for the past few days. I'm not sure we have enough proper secondary sourcing, separated both by person and by time, to allow this page to stand on its own, at least for the foreseeable future (a few months, at least). As such, it would be prudent, for now, to merge this; we can always break it apart later if needed. —Javert2113 (Siarad.|¤) 02:52, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The conspiracy theories have been substantially covered and are adequately notable for their own article. To merge into the death article (let alone the Epstein article) would make either far too unwieldy. Davey2116 (talk) 04:46, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment one early complaint about this article may play out now. One issue some of us had is how do you have a conspiracy theory theory discounting the official version of events when there is not yet an official version of events to present as a conspiracy. With the Washington Post running an argument with comments suggesting the autopsy may give results more easily explained by strangulation than self hanging and without an official statement on cause of death and multiple in place investigations, there is not yet an official version of events to be thought a conspiracy and so it is hard to argue a conspiracy theory as opposed to flippant cross accusations can even exist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 08:10, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, I think this is a real possibility. How do we determine what is a "conspiracy theory" in the context that there is no official version of events?--Jack Upland (talk) 09:55, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: a lot of the "Keep" arguments are invalid. Just because reliable sources have mentioned the claims doesn't mean that we have to have an article. Currently the "theories" are based on a few high profile tweets. Joe Scarborough's tweet was apparently made flippantly, and Trump only retweeted. We don't automatically need to have an article about things like this. There needs to be greater justification. Secondly, purely because we have articles about some conspiracy theories does not mean we need articles about every conspiracy theory. Again, there has to be greater justification.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:49, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closer: The Death of Jeffrey Epstein article was created at 15:07 12 August. !Votes before My very best wishes' comment were cast before that article existed. – Anne drew 13:40, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. My vote would still be "keep". This is a bad practice to create another page on potentially overlapped subject during active AfD. Perhaps merging should be discussed, but this needs to be done on articles talk pages after closing both AfD as keep. However, I would oppose to merging because both pages are already large and I think that facts and conspiracy theories should be kept separately. Yes, they certainly are conspiracy theories, even if he was actually murdered or intentionally let to die in the prison. My very best wishes (talk) 14:49, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Death of Jeffrey Epstein: a) They're not really conspiracy theories until we get an official narrative (as has been noted by User:Johnpacklambert) so speculation prior to such narrative shouldn't be under that heading, b) at the moment it's looking a lot like a POV fork, c) the explosion of speculation is itself notable, enough so that the Death article has its own (redundant) section on the matter. His death and the hubbub surrounding it are notable enough to have their own article, though, so I don't support lumping all of it back into the main article on Jeffrey Epstein himself. Magic9mushroom (talk) 14:50, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Death of Jeffrey Epstein and wait for the complete "official narrative" to exist as a reference point, per above. ―cobaltcigs 15:54, 15 August 2019 (UTC) Keep. ―cobaltcigs 00:32, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Death of Jeffrey Epstein. Until the cause and circumstances of death are established, we can't draw a firm line between what actually happened vs conspiracism. Note we know who killed JFK and how Diana, Princess of Wales, died and any dissenting opinions can be labelled conspiracism. But we don't know who Jack the Ripper was, so the article on him lists various theories and does not have a separate article for ones we consider to be conspiracy theories. I would point out that at the moment, homicide is a reasonable possibility in Epstein's case, but would be a conspiracy theory if the medical examiner determined he committed suicide and mainstream sources accepted the finding. TFD (talk) 20:39, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Death of Jeffrey Epstein, noting that early votes to keep were made either before Death of Jeffrey Epstein had been created, or before editors here were aware of it and knew merging was an option. -Darouet (talk) 21:24, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It might makes sense to ping those who weighed in before the "death" article was created; I would have appreciated such a ping, I did change my vote because of the new article. petrarchan47 คุ ก 21:51, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging, per the suggestion above by Petrarchan47: BD2412 Philip Cross InedibleHulk HAL333 John Pack Lambert MelanieN Rreagan007 M.W.B.A.B. Trillfendi Nowa Bangabandhu Count Robert of Paris Jack Upland [User:Rreagan007|Rreagan007]] InedibleHulk mrincodi MarvellingLiked Spengouli Tajiki0013 Freeknowledgecreator Benjiphillips Hurricanehink StonyBrook NomadicNom DarthBotto My very best wishes JFG Wqwt CitationPursuer Bearian LRG5784 userpage Antonio Numero 47 Martin Porphyro userpage userpage Crumpled Fire MZMcBride Vanilla Wizard Govvy Scott Shelby Ponyo SpidersMilk Inter&anthro Scarpy Kokpep Edison Nice4What JMK Coolabahapple Swil999 Benjamin Anne drew Andrew and Drew Cosmic Sans The Amazing Matt Reywas92 Meatsgains Wallyfromdilbert Javert2113 Davey2116 Magic9mushroom TFD Darouet -- BullRangifer (talk) 00:43, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I want both deleted, so Merge would mean the same to me, but count me in. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:59, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reply. This is mess because someone created page Death of Jeffrey Epstein during this AfD. Now, I believe the proper course of action is to close both AfDs as "keep" or "no consensus". Then anyone can initiate new discussion to merge these pages, but it should be done separately and after closing the AfDs. My very best wishes (talk) 17:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Death of Jeffrey Epstein. this article is an unnecessary fork and is subject to the usual tabloiding media does when something suspicious occurs; even the potus is getting in on it. this level of detail less than a week after the event isn't needed. Nixinova T C 08:32, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I consider this article a POV pushing that seeks to marginalize those who do not accept the statements from the prison officials at face value, an attack made harder when we consider it is now known the gaurds falsified the logs and were asleep on the job. Here we have USA today quoting Cyril Wecht [[13]] on how the bone breaks in Epstein's neck are not consistent with any hanging he could have done in the cell. Wecht is someone who has at least some expertise in this manner. Considered the medical examiner who did the autopsy made rulings in Eric Garner's death that are questioned, this is not going to be an easy case to move out of dispute. However the medical examiner has not announced the findings of the autopsy at all. At this point not accepting that this was a suicide is hardly to be cast off as a "conspiracy theory". The jury is still out and with the Wall Street Journal running an editorial that basically argued we have a failure of good journalism and no quality reporters covering this story, it is way to soon to seperate it our into "facts" and "conspiracy".John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Death of Jeffrey Epstein. --Nowa (talk) 17:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or delete per WP:NOTNEWS. Epstein's body isn't even cold and we're already convinced these conspiracy theories will have lasting historical importance? WanderingWanda (talk) 18:50, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now - Well, it seems rather relevant now, so we should wait and see if it dies out, and if it does, then maybe we can delete it. But if not, and I believe it won't, then we keep it. Calicodragon (talk) 21:05, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(pinged) Merge, consistent with my prior !vote to "Keep but rename", before the Death article had been created. Good luck with the histmerge… — JFG ^talk 21:14, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete First of all WP:NOTNEWS and WP:RECENTISM The speculation and the coverage about speculation is rampant in the sources provided. Next, this article seems to veer way off topic (WP:OFFTOPIC) by repeating what other notable persons did or did not do before Epstein's death. These actions have no ~~and has~~ relationship to conspiracies surrounding Epstein's death. Nor is coverage of these persons related to Epstein's death. These are WP:BLP violations - using this platform to smear notable persons based on speculative information. There are only a few theories related to Epstein's death at present, and nothing conclusive. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 03:45, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge changing my Ivote per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:RECENTISM and in agreement with other participants. It seems only the last section is worth merging because the coverage of other people in this article is unrelated to this topic. And, that coverage is based on speculation. Hopefully, by the time this AfD is over, we will have more answers. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 23:18, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. czar 18:35, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Wake

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

No indication that the subject meets WP:GNG or WP:NAUTHOR. Provided sources are all written by the subject with the exception of a mere mention of having won an award of unclear notability [14] (which also isn't independent coverage if it's published by the organization giving the award). Searching online, I was able to find some brief coverage in the Wisconsin State Journal, which has about one paragraph that is actually pertinent biographical information about Wake in the context of interviewing him about his interactions with another author.

Listed awards do not appear to rise to the level WP:ANYBIO (nor are they backed by reliable sources for the most part). Originally nominated for PROD, dePROD by the initial editor without making any improvements or even leaving an edit summary. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 18:15, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 18:15, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 18:15, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 18:15, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wisconsin-related deletion discussions. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 18:15, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete agree with Rosguill, fails WP:NAUTHOR. Meeanaya (talk) 18:34, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete a non-notable writer.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:43, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I looked at the blurbs provided for Wake's Caffeine and Other Stories (1997).[15] One is by Midwest Book Review, a blurb factory which doesn't help establish notability. Two are sourced simply as from certain people who authored one book and edited another - they are presumably not from published reviews. One is from an e-zine called Erupture, a self-published source. Another is from Eclectica, which is an edited publication and an acceptable source. So that's one point scored out of the required two to meet WP:NBOOK. Finally there's a quote from "Tracy Walczak, BookLovers" which I am guessing is a defunct online publication. I haven't been able to find out whether it was an edited publication or not so I can't confirm a point here. I searched for other coverage of the author but found only a couple of short mentions in local publications. So, yeah, delete unless more sources show up. Haukur (talk) 21:52, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Don't delete Adding another source here: Bob Wake is blurbed in David Foster Wallace's short story collection Oblivion according to The Howling Fantods [16] Bob Wake is a regional author from Wisconsin, similar to an August Derleth. More reading on regionalism in American literature here: [17] But being a regionalist does NOT equate to lack of notability; it is an important literary movement and the authors rise to level of recognition on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Augustmcwake (talk • contribs) 23:04, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Being big in Wisconsin would indeed be enough for notability. But you need a lot more sources to make the case. Book reviews, newspaper profiles, awards that get third party coverage – that kind of thing. Haukur (talk) 23:06, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And the page lists a number of notable regional Wisconsin awards won by the author in question, all of which are chosen by fellow Wisconsinite authors. In terms of third party coverage, here's an article about him from Madison.com, a news site consisting of three of the largest newspapers in the state. [18]contribs

It seems that you're confused about what notability means on Wikipedia. It's not a synonym for "important" or "famous", but is rather a measurement of the amount of coverage in available reliable sources. In order to demonstrate that the listed awards are notable, you will need to provide sufficient coverage of them in independent, reliable sources, to establish that they themselves meet notability guidelines for inclusion on Wikipedia (and even then, it's not a guaranteed indicator of notability, per WP:ANYBIO). And unless there's been some sort of mistake with the url, that "article" you've linked is a picture and one sentence, which is nowhere near the significant coverage required by WP:GNG. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 23:33, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I do understand that, and I believe this author meets that threshold. Earlier entries on this discussion page have listed coverage deemed notable, and I can continue listing some sources. Here is Urban Milwaukee, an alternative paper with significant viewership, picking up the press release announcing one of the author's awards [19] Here's another link to an article in the Wisconsin State Journal by [20] Doug Moe discussing contributions of the author in question to the Wisconsin literary community. 'Augustmcwake' ^talk

That Wisconsin State Journal link moves the needle a little bit for me. Can you come up with more coverage like that? Or any reviews of books or short stories in edited publications? Haukur (talk) 14:57, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not disputing anyone's right to evaluate the coverage in the Wisconsin State Journal for themselves, but just pointing out that this is the same source that I brought up in my nomination statement and described as having "brief coverage". _signed,Rosguill ^talk 17:07, 13 August 2019 (UTC) [reply]

Hah, thanks for pointing that out. It's laborious for me to access these pages since they give me a 451 error unless I go through a US proxy. I probably didn't bother originally so this looked new to me now.

I'd say we so far have two cases of non-trivial independent coverage in acceptable sources. This article and the Eclectica review. I'd like to see at least four cases to bring this to a keep. Haukur (talk) 17:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would posit it's subjective to say the coverage in the WSJ article is "brief." I would argue the entire article is about a significant project the author in question is doing for Wisconsin literary culture. I also feel that 4 sources versus 2 or 3 is equally subjective. However, here's another one - Bob Wake's Caffeine book of short stories is mentioned in Nancy Pearl's (very well known librarian and bestselling author)book "Now Read This II: A Guide to Mainstream Fiction 1990-2001." Bob Wake's book is listed as contributing to an emerging new genre called the near-novel. Here is the entire quote:

"A New Genre Is Born: In terms of the type of fiction being published, it's interesting to note that another fiction genre began to flourish in recent years. 'Near novels,' or books made up of a series of interconnected short stories in which characters either overlap or similar themes are explored, became ubiquitous on library and bookstore shelves. of course, the differences between a 'near novel' and a novel are fluid. One way to tell a novel from a 'near novel' is that in the latter, each chapter could stand alone (and frequently has been published as a short story). The chapters of a conventional novel, on the other hand, are much more interdependent on one another. Yet, at the same time, reading the stories or chapters in a 'near novel' as a unit significantly deepens their impact. Some examples of these 'near novels' include... Bob Wake's 'Caffeine and Other Stories.'"

Here is the link: https://books.google.com/books?id=1ap9eRLpLPUC&pg=PR18&lpg=PR18&dq=bob+wake+caffeine&source=bl&ots=URsrNBdZ1M&sig=ACfU3U2ibvFgCztYsqtpgpz6RNjbLHmPxQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKy9CXzYDkAhXhT98KHfzvCtUQ6AEwCnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=bob%20wake%20caffeine&f=false 'Augustmcwake'

I agree that the WSJ article is perfectly decent coverage. As for the Now Read This mention, I don't feel appearing in a list of eight books, with no comment on that book in particular, quite cuts it as non-trivial coverage. It's not nothing, but it's not much.

I arrive at the number 'four' this way: By WP:NBOOK you need two pieces of coverage for a book article. And if you have two notable books, there's a decent case for an author article. Two plus two is four. By being a little bit generous we can apply this even if the pieces don't line up as two pieces on one book and two pieces on another. This personal baseline is probably on the inclusionist side of things over here. And I'm not insisting on New York Times reviews either – an edited web publication is fine, a local newspaper is fine, a couple of paragraphs of analysis in a book or academic article would be fine. Even a defunct web publication would do as long as archive.org could show it to us. And coverage which is not available online is fine too, as long as we can confirm its existence. Haukur (talk) 20:17, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Two reliably-published and in-depth reviews each of two authored books (not edited volumes or books from his small press) would also be a borderline pass of WP:AUTHOR for me. However in this case, all I found (see links below) was two reviews of one book, both dubiously reliable rather than in established and notable publications, and none of the other. Are there more that I'm missing? —David Eppstein (talk) 21:30, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No, we're in agreement here on deleting – the above paragraph is me speaking hypothetically and generally. I guess the thread is so long now that this has become confusing. Haukur (talk) 22:29, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Founding a small press is not itself inherently notable, nor is authoring and self-publishing one book (Summer of the Cinetherapist) and one short story collection (Caffeine and Other Stories). I can find a couple of dubiously-reliable reviews of the story collection [21] [22] but none for the other book and it's not enough to convince me of a pass of WP:AUTHOR. Nor do I see any evidence of any other kind of notability. The Wisconsin State Journal piece does mention Wake, but it's only one source (not enough for GNG) and too anecdotal to be useful for much. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:59, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Exeed TX. Anything that is worth merging can be retrieved from the article history. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:07, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Chery Exeed TX

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There is another article already covering the subject, Exeed TX; (reason 5, content forking). Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 17:59, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment was going to vote SD criteria A10, however the Chery Exeed TX article has been here longer. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 18:06, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
For duplicate articles you perform an article merger. At no point in that process does an administrator use the deletion tool. Nor is AFD involved. Uncle G (talk) 06:11, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. I think the merge should be from "Exceed TX" to "Chery Exceed TX" because the longer title is more appropriately specific. It doesn't matter which has been here longer. 4.7.25.147 (talk) 23:26, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merging would be completely useless in this case, since the articles don't really have that much content. It's even obvious that merging or deleting would result in the exact same article, and in both instances, at least one article would not require any changes. That is, because the articles are literally redundant. We could even delete both articles: Creating this article from scratch would take less than five minutes. --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 16:14, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Exeed TX which is slightly more developed. (There's actually nothing interesting to merge from Chery Exeed TX.) In any case, no need for the deletion tool. Pichpich (talk) 21:14, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 22:25, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Gennaro Brooks-Church

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I cant see any signs of notability. Wikipedia is not an advertising platform of companies for their Business executives. Not independently notable, No indepth news coverage, lacks WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 17:55, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notabel builder.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - as per nominator the subject in question does not seem notable. FitIndia ^{✉ बात} 07:17, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete A non notable builder that fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage Taewangkorea (talk) 23:28, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails GNG. There is not really any coverage about him and the coverage of his work does not seem to rise to the level required of WP:CREATIVE. Jbh ^Talk 19:36, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 22:19, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

John Brigden

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It more looks likes a detailed version of a Linkedin profile, I cant see any signs of notability. Wikipedia is not an advertising platform of companies for their Business executives. Not independently notable outside of his role at company, No indepth news coverage, lacks WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 17:52, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete A non-notable businessman. This is Wikipedia not linkedin.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. Being the CCO, board secretary, etc., by itself is not notable. He has to have done something. Bearian (talk) 17:28, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nom. Non-notable businessman. Barca (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: person had notable positions. Cisco is major company and his position is SVP. However, I find mostly passing mentions of the person. Wm335td (talk) 18:47, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. No convincing WP:PAG based argument was presented in favor of retention. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:30, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Eleuthère I. du Pont

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I cant see any signs of notability, being a son doesn't makes you notable, no major role at the company. Not independently notable outside of his role at company, No indepth news coverage, lacks WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 17:49, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete being a member of a company board of directors is generally not enough for notability and that is all we have here.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:51, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No significant coverage, and notability not inherited from role or relatives ~~ OxonAlex - talk 17:55, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - arguably, he was notable as President of Wawa, a large chain of convenience stores. FWIW, a good friend of mine worked for him (as Wawa's architect). Bearian (talk) 17:27, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 22:27, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Patrick J. Ward

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I cant see any signs of notability, why he deserves a page, being a CFO or director of any company does not makes you notable. Not independently notable outside of his role at company, No indepth news coverage, lacks WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 17:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No significant coverage of person independent of role, failing GNG. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 17:49, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete a non-notable businessman.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:52, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - being CFO or a board member, does not covey automatic notability. He seems to be ordinary. Bearian (talk) 17:31, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. The nominator withdrew their deletion rationale, the only remaining delete opinion has been adequately rebutted. (non-admin closure) Steven Crossin ^{Help resolve disputes!} 02:26, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Edward D. Breen

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There are only two RS, Breen is not independently notable outside of his company, Nothing significant except his executive position, no major awards, no major appointments, lacks sufficient WP:RS to establish his independent notability, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 17:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notable businessman.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep passes criterion 1 of WP:BUSINESSPERSONOUTCOME - Chair of S&P 500 firm. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 17:47, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with OxonAlex, dont want to waste anyone's time and will like to withdraw it. @Northamerica1000: Meeanaya (talk) 18:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't personally recommend it: the common outcomes aren't case law, and aren't the strongest arguments in either direction, hence the weak keep. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 19:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

'Keep - CEO of an old, major firm in America. Bearian (talk) 17:32, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm not going to vote either way as my father was a legal executive at Tyco for many years worked with Ed Breen on a regular basis and so growing up hearing his name all the time has undoubtedly warped my opinion of his notability. Still, I do believe the current sources lean towards passing WP:GNG, plus more coverage from USA Today, The Associated Press, CNN, and appears quite often on CNBC. Best, GPL93 (talk) 21:00, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The current references could be better (some of the coverage is superficial, some is not from objective sources) but with that and the links posted by GPL93, I think we have enough to pass WP:BIO. It sounds weird to me that we could consider the CEO of a company with a revenue of $86 billion not notable. Pichpich (talk) 21:34, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:45, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Harlan Majure

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PROD declined. Bringing to AfD as the subject of the article is not notable as mayor of a small town, and notable only for his controversial testimony in a court case. WP:BLP1E Applies. Anything related to the trial can be merged into Murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner. Mccapra (talk) 17:13, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete being mayor of such a small place does not show notability, and much, much more coverage is needed to show that testimony at a trial makes the person who gave it notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:33, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not notable. Major of small town non notable, and otherwise known only for one event. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 17:37, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Small or big place doesn't makes a difference for me. He fails WP:GNG, lacks WP:RS. Meeanaya (talk) 18:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Not notable as of today. Per WP:GNG.BabbaQ (talk) 19:22, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the sourcing's terrible, and small town mayors aren't typically kept unless WP:GNG can be shown for a larger area than their town, which isn't the case here. SportingFlyer T·C 07:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The town is not large enough to hand all of its mayors an automatic notability freebie just for existing as mayors, but this article is not referenced anywhere near well enough to make him special. Bearcat (talk) 17:05, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Impressive that even one of the sources stated he was non-notable. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:47, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

J.P. Allen

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Prod was removed. Subject appears to be a minor filmmaker with at most extremely local impact. No claim to notability is made, fails WP:BIO. Ceethekreator (talk) 16:33, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete it does appear that Allen is a only very local "celebrity". I haven't been able to find coverage of him beyond the San Francisco press, and even that is only 4 or 5 articles in his nearly 20-year career. The closest this article comes to meeting WP:FILMMAKER is a brief mention that Stephanie's Image was nominated for three awards the Milan International Film Festival in 2009. The film did not win at Milan, but apparently won the "Audience Award" at the Washougal International Film Festival. I don't think this adds up to notability. Railfan23 (talk) 16:58, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete a non-notable filmmaker. We have lots of articles on filmmakers currently sourced only to IMDb. This is a potential area for a lot of either fixing articles on nominating them for deletion.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:34, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete a non-notable filmmaker, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 17:58, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:45, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This Week in Photography

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Fails WP:NWEB. No reliables sources to prove notability Rogermx (talk) 15:57, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, fails WP:WEBCRIT, has no non-trivial, reliable, published sources. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 17:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not seeing anything to prove its notability. – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 04:29, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. Not currently mentioned in target article. czar 14:48, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

49 Minutes of Jazz

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Notability, not enough sources for an article of substance Vmavanti (talk) 22:28, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. WP:RPRGM does suggest that a radio show may be notable if it's broadcast on a wide scale, as it was. However, it specifically notes the presence/absence of reliable sources is more key (a clearer statement than on many notability guidelines). I couldn't find anything that met the SigCov/reliable/independent requirements, let alone multiple ones. A redirect seems logical. To anyone else doing their BEFORE checks, be careful as this programme had multiple names and is spectacularly google unfriendly, and has other language mentions. Nosebagbear (talk) 12:26, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 15:43, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. Not independently notable, but seems like it could be covered on main article. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 15:55, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. No substantial support for deletion and only a single comment favoring a merge. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:35, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Democratic Foundation of Chameria

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The Democratic Foundation of Chameria, is an article about an Albanian ghost organization whose the leader enspouced extremist and nationalist political views and questionable claims (the leader illegally stylized/declared himself as President or Prime Minister of a non-existent Republic of Chameria - this rank and this country do not exist) and has expressed politically extremist and irredendist views against the territorial integrity of foreign states, particularly Greece). Furthermore, the leader of this ghost organization was recently found dead in Netherlands. The Dutch Police revealed to the press that he was involved in serious crimes such as money fraud, and the authorities suspect his death to be related to these crimes.

Looking thoroughly in the article Democratic Foundation of Chameria (or short for DFC), one can easily see that there are serious WP:OR issues, and a complete absence of reliable sources to WP:VERIFY the article's subject, which is about that DFC. In fact, the only sources cited in the article about DFC, are all dead and broken, and appear to refer to the foundation's website, which however is inaccessible.

The only reliable (and accessible) sources in the article, are about its leader's death (which should be moved to their own article about the person instead) and the Cham issue (which got already its own article). With simple words: any reliable sources found in the article, are not about the article's subject at all, in a violation of Wikipedia's rules. The presence of reliable sources in the article that are only about other subjects, already covered in other articles, cannot justify keeping this article from being deleted.

The article falls into WP:ADVOCATE, WP:OR and WP:NATIONALIST territory and lacks any WP:VERIFIABILITY and therefore it needs to be deleted. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 14:51, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Moaz786 (talk to me or see what I've been doing) 15:42, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Moaz786: Relax. Either the problems mentioned above will have to be addressed, or the article be deleted. Per ARBCOM, use of the Wikipedia project for other purposes—including, but not limited to, advocacy, propaganda, furtherance of outside conflicts, and political or ideological struggle—is prohibited. Wikipedia's rules regarding unverified information are quite clear. Articles from the Balkan topic area which are politically sensitive, is required that they meet the Project's minimal standards. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 16:29, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The organization is mentioned by several news sources which elaborate on its ideology, activities and goals. Furthermore, it has participated at UNPO activities. I am adding some content to the article. Ktrimi991 (talk) 15:58, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ktrimi991: Good. in that case, the article can stay, however any other unsourced content needs to be removed, the article cleaned up and updated. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 16:29, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Seems to pass GNG. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 15:59, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The article is entirely based on a couple of regional level newspapers (no wonder not a single non-Albanian or even Albanian speaking media at the national level mentions this organisation), even in those few newspapers there is too much wp:CRYSTALBALL. There is urgent need for additional material to save this one.Alexikoua (talk) 13:37, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexikoua: Agree. I shall note that besides the problems you underlined, there is still content in it which is unsourced and it needs to be removed if no sources are provided. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 16:46, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note I added some content sourced to several media outlets (none of them "regional"-- especially Top Channel) and UNPO's official page. I might make new additions if time permits (I doubt that). Anyone interested can find sources online and work with the article. Ktrimi991 (talk) 16:52, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Seems to pass WP:GNG. --SalmanZ (talk) 22:01, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep ~~or merge~~ for now changed after subsequent discussion below, merger discussions will resume on appropriate pages after this ends At it's current form at least, the article doesnt strike me as a case of ADVOCATE; discussion of cat fights between Lato and Idrizi are much more in the unfavorable depiction territory (or even BLP inasmuch as we discuss the accusation of accepting *gifts* from Greece). TopChannel and Telegraf arent really "regional". Some stuff like the alleged murder that didnt happen arent notable. I could also see a home for the info on this page on a broader page discussing modern politics surrounding the Cham issue too-- we dont need a bunch of stubs, it might be helpful to unify some of these, generally.--Calthinus (talk) 22:08, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Calthinus: Yeah, an article named sth like List of Cham organizations formed by merging several articles together would be sth good for the coverage of the Cham issue. However, since the merge would involve at least 4 articles, that should be discussed somewhere other than here. On this article's talk page or even on the talk page of WikiProjectAlbania. Cheers, Ktrimi991 (talk) 22:43, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Or Cham issue. But agreed, this is not the place.--Calthinus (talk) 17:07, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge: Though this is supposed to have been founded in 2006, gbooks, gscholar and the (English) googlenews receive zero hits. The best I've could find in academic literature was this work [[23]]: the name of the organisation is just included in a list of minor irredentist Cham-related organisations.Alexikoua (talk) 09:31, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment@Alexikoua, Ktrimi991, and Calthinus: I was thinking of merging this article with Albanian nationalism but the idea of a merging it into a list of List of Cham organizations sounds fine too. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 16:18, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, after you tried to get the article deleted with irrelevant arguments, you support merging it. Anyhow, I am not going to waste my time repeating what I have already said regarding the difference between an Afd debate and merging articles. Ktrimi991 (talk) 16:38, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ktrimi991, are you telling us that by the time my deletion proposal was made (and prior to your intervention and subsequent attribution of sources), that the article wasn't in line with Wikipedia's Deletion Policy regarding articles with no attribution of reliable sources? Please calm down. Your tense response to me, right now, is not constructive, and shows someone close to the topic with grievances. I kindly ask you that you avoid commenting on editors and focuse on the problems pertaining the article. Thank you. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 17:32, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There was no tension in my response to you. Another editor said just after you nominated the article for deletion (and before I edited it) that your arguments seem to be in IDONTLIKEIT territory. You firstly wanted this article deleted, then "cleaned up and updated" and now merged with other articles. I am not against merging some of the articles on Cham organizations (probably not this one but 4 or 5 five others) but the place is not here for that discussion. Your tense response to me, right now, is not constructive, and shows someone close to the topic with grievances. I do not want to discuss on editors, and their personal stuff. But since you are accusing me, I remind you of your own words [24]. However, I do not think am going to respond here anymore. I expressed my opinion; continuing with rather off-topic stuff is of no help. Cheers, Ktrimi991 (talk) 17:59, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Even in that old comment you cited now, I was repeating to you that: "Lets focuse on the article content. Thank you". Read what you cite. If you can't abide by Wikipedia's rules and relax, then I suggest you take a WP:BREAK. Don't expect further replies from me, I am not interested in anyone's grievances, let alone yours, and I suggest you do the same.

Back to topic: fellow editors, do we agree that the article doesn't have to be deleted anymore and rather be merged? However if we are to start a discussion on merging the article with others, we should at least consider the content in it which isn't the subject of the article, yet it is sourced. The question is about the organization's head. Besides the obvious fact that info about him will have to be trimmed down when the article is merged (but shouldn't be removed), the trimmed down content can go somewhere else. I am not sure how useful idea it is, but I was wondering if the creation of an person article about Festim Lato, the criminal and so-called president of Chameria. He has gained notability in local media, both for his nationalist and criminal activities, which IMO falls under WP:NOTABILITY. What are your thoughts?--- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 18:23, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

On Festim Lato -- possibly but the page would be very reliant on "regional" media -- as long as we're all cool with that, I'd be down for a new page. @SilentResident, Ktrimi991, and Alexikoua: I can support making List of Cham organizations but that means someone has to do work to make a new page rather than only talk about it-- and I have other food on my plate, promises of wikiwork that have not gotten done yet. If someone volunteers I'd support that. Otherwise I'd suggest a simple merger into Cham issue -- if there's no objections I'll start the proposal on that page.--Calthinus (talk) 19:04, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Since you pinged me @Calthinus:, I know you want to focus on stuff other than the Cham issue/Greeks in Albania etc. A new article on Cham organizations would need a good amount of effort and knowledge. Merely copy-pasting content from other articles is not of value. PDIU, Democratic Foundation of Chameria and "Shoqata Cameria" deserve their own articles. The rest should be, in my view, placed in an article named sth like List of Cham organizations. Merging with Cham issue would not be a good idea, since we are talking about several organizations that currently have their own articles. Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:13, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Aight I won't start the proposal then. At the very least we should link them in some way, with a navigation box perhaps? They should all be considered in the context of each other, imo.--Calthinus (talk) 19:15, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ktrimi991 to clarify -- imo -- electorally or otherwise highly significant and well-covered entities like PDIU should obviously keep their own articles. My main shtick here is that there should be an easy way to navigate between the different pages for Cham organizations. We have the "organizations" tab in the Cham Albanians box, but readers don't see it unless they expand that, and a lot of the info is cultural/historical whereas most readers of this page will only be interested in the current political organizations.--Calthinus (talk) 19:19, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Calthinus: I totally understand and agree with you. The Ch. Albs. box contains only some of the Cham organizations that currently have their own articles. I do not have much information on Cham organizations but I can see there are more than 8 Cham organizations that have their own articles. I do not have the time to focus on this matter, so creating a List of Cham prganizations and moving there the content of the articles of Cham organizations other than PDIU, DFC and "Shoqata Cameria" could be the only viable solution. Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:32, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

PDIU is a political party, not organization. There is an obvious difference here; I don't get how PDIU got involved in all this. A list of organizations where political parties are not present in it, is fine and does not go against the project's rules in any way, so I am positive no one could oppose this idea. @Alexikoua: what is your opinion? Sorry for asking but your input on Albania-related article is noteworthy, and your skills with Google and sources are much better than mine. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 19:49, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SilentResident The Cham issue and Albanian nationalism are two related but separate things. The latter has a history of over a century before the former was born. Likewise Greater Albania is also separate, because (a) Cham organizations often demand Greek citizenship rather than a change in borders and (b) Albanian irredentism is more often focused solely on Kosovo, Malesia, Ulqini and Polog, not Chameria which would involving absorbing a large new group of Greeks who would somehow have to be magically persuaded to be happy about now being in a much poorer state than Greece (neither of these complications exist so much for the typical "targets" of Albanian irredentism). --Calthinus (talk) 18:59, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure. The Democratic Foundation of Chameria asked for the dissolution of Greece and the formation of a new Confedetation that has 2 constituent parties in it: Chameria, and an Epirusless Greece. [25]. I am not saying that whatever the nationalists behind this whole "Republic of Chameria" thing are serious or not, but I am just noting that it is not as much different than other forms of Albanian nationalism as you may think. I hope I am wrong and you tell me that this is just a joke or something that doesn't even fall under the concept of Albanian nationalism, but oh well... Whatever is the case here, I am open to your opinions, and I shall remind everyone we will need emphasize on WP:RS and avoid mistakes of the past, where other forms of nationalism in the Balkans, were downplayed and underestimated before Wikipedia finally decides to go ahead and tackle and attribute them properly, as forms of nationalism. (and I am referring to the Macedonian nationalism)--- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 19:55, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Cham question is one specific issue, Albanian or any other nationalism is an overarching ideology that claims to have an answer to it and other such questions. Different but related. Here is not the venue.--Calthinus (talk) 20:48, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:09, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Shallon Lester

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The subject of the biography is listed as being known for starring in a reality TV show which aired only 6 episodes. To me, this does not seem to meet Wikipedia's notability requirements for entertainers. An unregistered user edited the page claiming to be the subject of the biography writing that she is "a popular Internet personality creating viral dating videos on YouTube" and providing her YouTube channel as a reference. Putting aside the WP:COI and WP:PRIMARY concerns, given that the videos on that channel typically get less than 100K views and the channel only has about 130K subscribers, I don't think she is notable as an internet personality (but I don't see a guideline for notability of internet personalities). Banana Republic (talk) 14:41, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per WP:ENTERTAINER; the subject has not starred in multiple notable films or television shows, nor does she have a large fan base or significant cult following, and she has not made unique, prolific, or innovative contributions to her field. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 15:52, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete does not meet our inclusion criteria for entertainers.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fan/vanity page by SPA whose sole WP edit was to create this article. Agricola44 (talk) 14:51, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The editor, Honeymonk, has also made two deleted edits. This article under consideration was created just 5 hours after the account was created. I guess the rules have tightened since the article was created in 2007 because today a user must be registered for a minimum of 4 days and have made 10 edits before being allowed to create articles. Banana Republic (talk) 14:04, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar 14:48, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Musicshake

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Non-notable web-service Collaboratio (talk) 10:13, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 14:29, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:WEBCRIT; a single article on the first three pages of the "news" tab of Google does not show multiple non-trivial published works. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 15:58, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 14:15, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Naveen Prasad (Journalist)

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Young journalist with no indication of notability; references are to things he has written, not about him. ... discospinster _talk 14:08, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notable 17-year-old journalist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:42, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I'm not actually sure notability is asserted, but GNG obviously not met. Nosebagbear (talk) 10:08, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:15, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Delete It looks like spam and surely it should be deleted. Non notable person. -- Harshil ^{want to talk?} 04:30, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG and WP:NJOURNALIST.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:00, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. RL0919 (talk) 14:03, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jan Brandt

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Not independently notable outside of her company, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 13:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Strong keep – Seriously, number 39 on FORTUNE's 50 Most Powerful Women and lots of news coverage is not enough for WP:GNG? Nom has a long list of similar AfDs that need careful scrutiny, I think. Dicklyon (talk) 15:34, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Publications coming out annually with "30 under 30" and "40 under 40" and other such lists, getting on such a list is no where near a sign of notability. Meeanaya (talk) 18:04, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You'd put FORTUNE's 50 Most Powerful Women in that category? That's just wrong. Dicklyon (talk) 04:24, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep clearly notable. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 16:01, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Were you able to find any RS? It more looks likes a detailed version of a Linkedin profile, I cant see any signs of notability. Wikipedia is not an advertising platform of companies for their Business executives. Not independently notable outside of his role at company, No indepth news coverage, lacks WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 18:06, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The role in the company is the source of her notability, yes. What's wrong with that? Here is a news article with significant independent coverage, for example. And here's one from 4 years earlier. She's famous. Dicklyon (talk) 04:22, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a rehashed LinkedIn profile and nobody from AOL paid me to write this for anyone. I don't even know if she knows this page exists. Not everyone making pages for executives is doing it to advertise. I genuinely wanted to know more about the person behind the infamous AOL CD carpet-bombing campaign and decided to make this page to share what I found. It is hard to find online sources from this era about marketing executives without looking through archives which may be why it comes off as a LinkedIn profile. Blueclaw (talk) 00:41, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete lists of most influential x from publication y have become so ubiquitous it is time we stop paying them any heed.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:35, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's just one measure; there are lots of news articles about her. Dicklyon (talk) 02:29, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep multiple independent sources reference Brandt's notability eg "That genius Jan Brandt" and "Jan Brandt is a legend in the world of marketing. She singlehandedly led the famous AOL 'carpet-bombing' campaign that put millions of AOL trial discs and CDs in everything from magazines to popcorn boxes to banks." The AOL freebie campaign she started in the early 1990s is still newsworthy, even when articles about it don't mention Brandt, e.g. Smithsonian and Wired. HouseOfChange (talk) 20:21, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Sourcing is more than adequate. "Not independently notable outside of her company" is like saying "not notable outside of the thing that makes her notable". XOR'easter (talk) 15:07, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep Multiple independent sources indicate that she is indeed well-known. I started the page because I found her contributions to the early 90s internet era fascinating and I wanted to know more about her career. Surely other people find her story and contributions interesting. Blueclaw (talk) 00:41, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep per WP:RSs Thanks HouseOfChange. Wm335td (talk) 18:36, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. RL0919 (talk) 14:06, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Steve McClellan

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No WP:RS whatsoever, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 13:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Meeanaya, article has been expanded and improved to Start class. I will submit it for DYK today and would appreciate a swift conclusion to this AfD. Thank you. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:37, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. I disagree with the characterization of the Star Tribune and Village Voice Media as not being reliable sources. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:21, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I completely agree that Star Tribune and Village Voice Media are reliable sources but the problem, they are not covering Steve McClellan in-depth. Is the page about "Steve McClellan" or his company? If it is his company page, I agree but if it is about Business executive, he fails in-depth news coverage and fails to establish his notability without in-depth RS. Meeanaya (talk) 18:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Please point to the guideline saying I must include in-depth resources? As written, I disagree with this AfD because of your statement above: "No WP:RS whatsoever, fails WP:GNG." There are lots of other sources but I prefer to deal with what we have now. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - Xe pointed to Wikipedia:Notability in the nomination, and you just quoted that. The subject must be covered in depth. It must be possible to make more than a permastub out of what the sources provide. Uncle G (talk) 06:22, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - Thank you, Uncle G. One of the sources given fell out of the Internet Archive (it was 12 pages and they have about 3) and the other puts me over the limit for free articles at the Star Tribune. If you guys can give me a few days I am pretty sure this could easily be a Start or C class article. One of these is an interview but here are four other sources that clearly establish notability. Pioneer Press, Bring Me the News, City of Minneapolis, Star Tribune. Plus I think McClellan signed every contract here including this remarkable one for Prince in 1981 just after he signed with Warner Brothers. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:20, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep; I would say the Star Tribune is certainly a reliable source. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:01, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- The entire documentation of this subject by it cited so far is 16 words, though. That's not in-depth documentation of this person's life and works. Uncle G (talk) 06:22, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Meeanaya seemed to make the claim that there were no reliable sources whatsoever. But I think he meant to say that none of the sources given, while reliable, established notability. We can easily take care of that now. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:29, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to First Avenue. There is also an article in the StarTribune [26] about the Mayor declaring “Steve McCellan Day” that isn’t sourced here, and that’s at least one source pointing towards notability. But there needs to be more to establish stand alone notability. As for the others cited, RS or not, the problem is that they are not about Steve McClellan, but rather are about First Avenue, the venue he co-owned. (BTW, it’s not Village Voice, it is the City Pages—confusion, perhaps, because Village Voice Inc. is the parent company of the City Pages). Both are Minneapolis papers. The City Pages article is an oral history about the venue, where McClellan is one among dozens of people quoted about it. The Minneapolis Star Tribune article merely name checks him as the former operator. A google search turns up similar articles of namechecks and quotes, in both RS and non-RS, but like the rest they are about his involvement with First Avenue. Unless more can be brought forward that establish him as being independently notable beyond his involvement with the venue, a redirect is best. ShelbyMarion (talk) 13:45, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- A couple things, ShelbyMarion. McClellan left First Avenue in 2005. Other people run it now. City Pages was owned by Village Voice Media when the article given was written. Today it is owned by Star Tribune. Publishers can make a difference thus I cited them by name. Here's yet another source that helps to establish notability. I am inclined to continue to expand this article to Start or C class. -SusanLesch (talk) 14:25, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hopefully you'll have better luck than I did in finding significant sources; however you will not be able to include the one you cited above as independent because it is his profile on the website of the organization he founded. ShelbyMarion (talk) 15:02, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Which goes to show he has a life separate and apart from First Avenue. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:37, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I would like to point out that, as well as WP:GNG, there is WP:BASIC, which says: "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability". I would also note that saying this person is a "business executive" of a "company", as Meeanaya does above, does not adequately describe his role at all.

I have found some sources outside Minnesota, which have some statements about McClellan: "The guy who first brought in Prince to perform was the club's longtime manager, Steve McLellan." [27]. Dave Pirner is quoted as saying Steve McLellan was "irreplaceable" [28].

In Inc. Magazine (01/05/2005, Vol. 27 Issue 5, p51-52), in an article about Allan Fingerhut (who owned First Avenue): "Nightclub veterans Steve McClellan and lack Meyers handled day-to-day operations, from overseeing the bar staff to booking acts. .... First Avenue continued to prosper. In fact, Fingerhut was so pleased with the business that in 2000, along with Frank, McClellan, Meyers, and Fingerhut's brother, Ron, he formed a partnership that purchased the building that housed the club. .... In March 2003, shortly after getting the bill for back taxes, Fingerhut fired Frank from the club, sending the pink slip in the mail. Not long after, he boarded a plane for Minneapolis and fired Meyers and McClellan, who had grown increasingly bitter after Frank's departure. .... Frank, Meyers, and McClellan all filed wrongful termination suits against their former boss ..... Frank, McClellan, and Meyers formed a partnership and purchased the club's assets for a mere $200,000. They reopened First Avenue on November 20--without Fingerhut. ... McClellan, for his part, still helps with the club's communications and strategy".

The John Dougan source (already in the article) is a review of several books, and the book the quote is taken from, First Avenue: Minnesota's Mailroom by Chris Riemenschneider, may well have more about McClellan in it. The review also says about McClellan that he was "indefatigable, the club's general manager and principal talent buyer for 25 years".

Other Star Tribune sources include one that has a list of 10 unforgettable Minnesota characters, with McClellan at #1: "For nearly three decades, this cranky, cantankerous curmudgeon ran First Avenue, making it into an internationally known nightclub. He wasn't easy to get along with, but you couldn't argue with his dedication and taste." [29]

In 2016, there was a play called Complicated Fun: The Minneapolis Music Scene, and the article says "The historic figure who cuts the widest swath in Berks' play is Steve McClellan, the big bear of a man who managed and booked First Avenue for years. ... McClellan gets nearly universal credit for integrating First Avenue audiences by bringing Prince and his many talented associates into downtown. At the same time, McClellan ... gave the smaller 7th Street Entry over to the punk and new wave bands that were sprouting up. ... McClellan was able to forge relationships with the musicians. Chris Osgood (Suicide Commandos)... said McClellan "treated us fairly." ... "You have to credit Steve McClellan and [the Longhorn's] Hartley Frank with nurturing the scene, said Chan Poling." [30]

Another couple of books that verify info: The Replacements: All Over But the Shouting describes McLellan as "Former manager of the First Avenue nighclub, and founder of the Minneapolis nonprofit DEMO" [31]; and Continuum encyclopedia of popular music of the world, in only a snippet view, says "Since 1978, the club has been managed by Steve McClellan, and his commitment to promoting Twin Cities-area artists has been ..." [32].

While it's true that most of what I've found is about Steve McClellan at First Avenue, it seems clear to me that he wasn't just a manager. The sources talk about what he did, and what he was like, and the huge impact he had on the music scene. The work he has done since leaving First Avenue is sourced. Apart from WP:BASIC, I think it could be argued that he meets one of the creative SNGs, eg WP:CREATIVE #1 "The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors" or WP:ENTERTAINER #3 "Has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment." RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:04, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:10, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Walt Hopkins

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Non-notable coach, lacks WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 13:38, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Question. Is being an assistant coach grounds for deletion? Many are former players of note but for example Scott Morrison (basketball coach) seems to have a similar level of notability as this one. Thanks. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:13, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete assistant coaches are not notable for such. I would urge nominating the Morrison article for deletion as well.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:21, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @SusanLesch: - Scott Morrison (basketball coach) easily passes WP:GNG per [33] [34] [35], [36], whereas Walt Hopkins most likely does not, at least I was unable to find any substantial articles about him. Being an assistant coach is neither grounds for deletion nor inclusion, the only question is whether the person passes WP:GNG. -- Dammit_steve (talk) 10:48, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Dammit steve who answered my question perfectly. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:09, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete All I can find is routine coverage of his hire as an assistant coach and that's not enough to meet WP:BIO. Going back to Susan's question, the fact is that, fair or unfair, being an assistant coach on an NBA team will inevitably result in way more media coverage than being an assistant coach on an WNBA team. Pichpich (talk) 21:46, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 14:24, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kailynn Bowling

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Not independently notable, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG, another spam to promote individual. Meeanaya (talk) 13:14, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notable businesswoman.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:39, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Another non-notable business executive. Agricola44 (talk) 14:49, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 16:35, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Some cleanup and ensuring references in the article are active and dead links fixed would be prudent here, however. (non-admin closure) Steven Crossin ^{Help resolve disputes!} 02:28, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Borish

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Not independently notable, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG, clearly corporate spam. Meeanaya (talk) 13:12, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Passes GNG. Not perfectly sourced, but sources do exist. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 16:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Can you mention a few RS, that are covering this Business Exectutive in-depth and not his company? Unfortunately I can't find much and AFD is based on lack of in-depth WP:RS. Meeanaya (talk) 18:13, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the passing references we have do not add up to passing GNG. Nothing here shows notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:43, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep co-founder of two significant charitable foundations, co-founder of Tudor Investment Corporation, and served as Chairman of several financial institutions (and there is a lot of coverage out there that needs to be sifted through since he is a "go-to" guy for market commentary).Patapsco913 (talk) 03:24, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Quotations by an article subject are not documentation of an article subject. Please cite sources showing that this person's life and works have been properly documented in depth. Uncle G (talk) 06:24, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well I did not say that. I merely stated that there is a lot of chaff out there since Borish is a stock market commentator. Anyhow, a vandal hit the article on 5 March 2019 and hid most of the references which the nominator did not seem to notice or check why there are 31 citation numerals and only 5 citations appearing below. This article passed AfD before and his been around since 2012. It should have been hit with a request for more citations tag with a note placed on the talk page. It definitely needs a cleanup and some dead links repaired. Her edits show she spent 2 minutes between tagging AfDs. How can you go through 31 sources that fast? Patapsco913 (talk) 10:16, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and restore some of the deleted content. I wish Meeanaya would be somewhat less active in his deletionism; he causes way too much to save articles on marginally notable people. Dicklyon (talk) 00:16, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep thanks to the diligence of Patapsco913. I think between the books and the Bloomberg the case is made for WP:NCORP. It is difficult to sift through all of the primary material (contributions, video interviews, etc.) to find in-depth coverage of the man (which is at least a little ironic, right?), but I appreciate that there seems to also be a lot of dated material not available in GNews. For example, there's an oft cited Barron's profile of Tudor Jones in which Borish's model–and the fact that he fudged some of the data when overlaying charts–is discussed in depth, and I imagine there was significant press when this model correctly predicted the market crash later that year. Similarly, there has to have been coverage of this co-founder back in 1988 during the launch of the Robin Hood Foundation, I just can't find anything digitized. Pegnawl (talk) 21:22, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:12, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

David S. Blitzer

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Not independently notable outside of his companies, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 13:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. Can you please specify which of the citations are from sources that might breach WP:RS? Unless the majority of sources are unreliable, I would think this meets the GNG because coverage is fairly significant. Thanks.
Keep Co-managing partner and minority owner of two major sports teams (as well as other significant sporting investments) which have seen major builds in value (seems to be building a multi-sport franchise with forays into baseball, soccer, and esports); key executive at Blackstone ($7 billion in sales); active philanthropist. What sources are unreliable?Patapsco913 (talk) 15:46, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Can you share a few RS that covers him in-depth and not his business? Also, being a owner of a big company doesn't makes you notable, it is important to know what you are notable for. All of sources are primarily routine coverage and fails to establish his notability to deserve an encyclopedic page. Meeanaya (talk) 18:16, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

He is a businessman so it will be hard to find an article that mentions only him and not any of the sports teams he manages and owns or his employment at Blackstone.Patapsco913 (talk) 02:31, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete owning a sports team is not a default sort of notability. The sourcing is not enough to show notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:28, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- He is "co-managing partner" not just owner; he does not own just one sport team; he has a separate business and philanthropic career; and is a major investor in esporting.Patapsco913 (talk) 17:55, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep seems to be more than just an owner of a team, he's a co-manager, also a philanthropist, also a founder of a fund, also serves on boards, etc. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 19:23, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. My request for unreliable source examples has not been answered and I agree with points made by Sir Joseph. Subject meets GNG. No Great Shaker (talk) 09:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - There's a strong claim of notability as a sports-team owner and businessman, backed by a broad and deep range of reliable and verifiable sources supporting that claim. Alansohn (talk) 14:35, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:11, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Stanley Black (businessman)

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Not independently notable, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 13:09, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Prominent businessman and philanthropist. Sufficient coverage. What sources are not reliable?Patapsco913 (talk) 16:35, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. He's done nothing more than give his money away, but he's got sufficient press and awards to be WP:Notable. Sources seem good although one big one does not go to the proper page. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 19:38, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I think the references currently in the article are sufficient to meet WP:GNG. Pichpich (talk) 22:03, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:11, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Raul A. Bernal

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Not independently notable, promotional piece, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG, clearly corporate spam. Meeanaya (talk) 13:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notable businessman.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:43, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- As User:Stifle/Don't say non-notable explains, that is not a useful rationale. Show what effort, if any, you have put in to determining what sources exist. Uncle G (talk) 06:26, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The references given in the article are about his business ventures or his appearance on TV, not about him specifically. (The exception was perhaps reference number one but unfortunately it is now a dead link that can't be recovered through the web archive) The article is also quite spammy though that can be resolved without deletion. Pichpich (talk) 22:01, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete and redirect to Hamari Bahu Silk. Possibly just WP:TOOSOON, so there is the possibility of recreation in the future if she has more roles/coverage. RL0919 (talk) 14:13, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Chahat Pandey

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New actress, only one significant role, despite the false claims in the article of multiple "lead" roles. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:04, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Don't delete this article

I have added more reliable references so please don't delete the article. - Ritz1409 (talk) 13:27, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:NACTOR as noted. Most of the references are casual mentions. This should have stayed as a draft article as it's WP:TOOSOON, but it's been moved and needs to be evaluated as such. Ravensfire (talk) 14:05, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to the previous target, Hamari Bahu Silk as an ATD. Though I wouldn't mind seeing this deleted and salted. Etzedek24 ^{(I'll talk at ya) (Check my track record)} 15:20, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete does not meet the inclusion criteria for actresses.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:25, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Hamari Bahu Silk - that also makes it conveniently accessible as and when the actress is in another suitable role - atm does not satisfy NACTOR. Nosebagbear (talk) 10:11, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect. Article is mostly OR and notability separate from the show is doubtful. Agricola44 (talk) 14:47, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Fails WP:GNG and clearly WP:PROMOTION. -- Harshil ^{want to talk?} 04:32, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect. Article is mostly OR and notability separate from the show is doubtful. Agricola44 (talk) 14:47, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:05, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:35, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

AFI World 9s

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Created by Internationalfooty whose contributions have solely been directed at promoting initiatives of Australian Football International. I could only find one source (Ministry of Sport), which is not sufficient to satisfy the general notability guideline. – Teratix ₵ 12:53, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete the sources given do not show that this article meets notability criteria. --Dom from Paris (talk) 10:48, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I too can't find anything beyond the ministryofsport article which discusses the tournament but is more focused on the efforts of the AFI to generate worldwide interest in the sport. I think that's a bit too thin for meeting WP:GNG. Pichpich (talk) 02:34, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar 13:36, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Heidt

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Subject fails WP:NHOCKEY. Only played 94 games in the DEL where at least 200 is required to #2 and has no preeminent honours to pass #2 or #3. Tay87 (talk) 12:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Does not meet the sport-specific criteria and coverage is not significant enough to warrant GNG. No Great Shaker (talk) 13:56, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete a non-notable hockey player.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:13, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The nominator is correct. The player does not meet the criteria for WP:NHOCKEY and separately does not meet the criteria for WP:SICOV. Wm335td (talk) 19:36, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Not enough coverage found (yet) or other markers of notability. RL0919 (talk) 14:29, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Chen Yu (artist)

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Contested prod, with explanation on article's talk page. There is one in-depth source about this artist, and about their showing at the Schoeni Art Gallery (doesn't have a WP article, but may be notable, as it's mentioned in quite a few artist's articles). But other than that single article, there is a dearth of coverage. Simply does not meet WP:GNG, and clearly does not meet WP:NARTIST. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:19, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I searched the English and Chinese names, and found little. Inadequate sourcing for us to evaluate notability.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 14:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete a non-notable artist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete does not seem notable. -Zanhe (talk) 21:50, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- User:Stifle/Don't say non-notable. ThatMontrealIP explains what xe did. What did you do, if anything? Uncle G (talk) 06:29, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - he's not a notable artist because he's never had a solo exhibit is a major art center; he's never exhibited internationally; his work is not in the permanent collection of a major museum; and there's scant coverage of him in reliable sources. We almost always delete artists' articles who haven't gotten to a high enough level internationally. The single article in Art Radar is not sufficient - it's probably a reliable source and we've used it before - but It's probably just too soon. Bearian (talk) 17:41, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails notability. - MA Javadi (talk) 21:38, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:36, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yeshimebeth T. Belay

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Not independently notable outside of her company, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG, another promotional piece, requires deletion. Meeanaya (talk) 12:18, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a local figure lacking the type of coverage needed to show notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:17, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak delete There are actually reliable sources - The Washington Post. However, two articles in one newspaper do not count as multiple, independent sources, so she currently does not meet WP:GNG or even WP:BASIC. I have done some editing of the article, so it is less promotional and there are more inline citations. If multiple independent sources could be found, then she might be notable. RebeccaGreen (talk) 00:09, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar 13:29, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jim F. Barksdale

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Not independently notable outside of his company, he could be notable if he would have won the senator, fails to establish what he is notable for, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 12:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: fails WP:NPOL / WP:BASIC. --K.e.coffman (talk) 16:29, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- What did you do to find out? Uncle G (talk) 06:31, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete unelected candidates for public office are not notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:38, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete it's possible he's notable outside WP:NPOL, but I don't see it with the sourcing available. SportingFlyer T·C 07:20, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. People do not get Wikipedia articles just for being candidates in elections they did not win; the notability test at WP:NPOL is holding office, not just running for it. But this is referenced mainly to primary sources that are not support for notability at all, and the few genuinely reliable sources do not add up to enough coverage to make him markedly more notable than most other unsuccessful candidates. Bearcat (talk) 17:03, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Technical NFOOTY pass, but nothing to support this presumption of GNG. Fenix down (talk) 07:07, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Taylor Barada

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Not independently notable outside of his company, non-notable soccer player, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG, clearly corporate spam. Meeanaya (talk) 11:59, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Subject does meet WP:NFOOTBALL point 2. I created the article under not under the intention of 'corporate spam' instead following notability guidelines having made a professional appearance in English football/soccer for the club whose articles I frequently contribute to. Jasonakagary88 (talk) 13:52, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

He has not played much and has been only a member and just one appearance doesn't makes him notable. If WP:NFOOTBALL point 2 is not clearly written, it needs to be detailed. Meeanaya (talk) 18:23, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete one appearance in 3rd division is just not enough to make someone notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:42, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This person has made one appearance in a fully professional league which is enough to pass WP:NFOOTY Seasider91 (talk) 21:51, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – One appearance in the fourth-tier third division doesn't satisfy notability guidelines, and there don't appear to be any WP:GNG sources, just brief mentions [37] [38] [39], non-RSes [40] [41] [42] and a routine transfer report [43]. – Levivich 05:30, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Playing one match of professional football is no basis upon which to bypass the fundamental test of significant coverage in reliable sources. At the most NFOOTY provides for a presumption of notability. That presumption is displaced by the absence of significant coverage.—Mkativerata (talk) 06:07, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - when he fails GNG no categorically, unless somebody like @Jasonakagary88: can extend on his Colchester career...? Giant Snowman 12:51, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - He gets a single mention as a member of the Virginia Cavaliers national championship team in the Congressional Record. Otherwise he shows up in databases like Hugman's for his single appearance in the English fourth-tier. Nothing that suggests the article will satisfy the GNG or that this person is notable for his footballing career. Jogurney (talk) 14:16, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment We need to stop allowing 1 appearance in a 4th tier league to make someone default notable. If we applied the same rules to baseball as to soccer, we would make everyone who played one game in AAA minor league notable. If we applied the same rules we apply to soccer to academics every academic who ever held a tenure track position at any university anywhere would be notable. We are no where near asseting that, and it makes no sense to assert inclusion criteria as broadly here. We need to consider removing some leagues from automatic inclusion, and I think we should up to above 1 game inclusion. Actors we require multiple significant roles in notable films, yet soccer players can get a pass with one game in a 4th tier league without even showing that their contribution to the game was notable. This makes no sense.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:40, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO which outweighs the loophole in WP:NFOOTY. Josalm64rc (talk) 07:04, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Is there anything from Colchester or Notts County from 1994? That is old enough to be considered pre-internet. SportingFlyer T·C 01:36, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:44, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

George Atallah

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Not independently notable outside of his company, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 11:54, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notable businessman.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:29, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete lack of significant coverage for non notable businessman Taewangkorea (talk) 23:32, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar 13:25, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kenneth Arredondo

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Not independently notable outside of his company, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 11:52, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notable businessman.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: It looks like an autobiography with a lot of weasel words. For example, "successfully led its sales operations in Florida and the Caribbean" could only means he obeyed orders and the grand scheme of things did not throw a challange at him. "Despite an economic downturn in the economy of Latin America, Arredondo led CA to double-digit growth." This is particularly vague. Was the growth 10% or 99%? Also, given the fact that CA acquired 200 companies in that period of time, how much in $ was this growth? Besides, I cannot verify this. The source is unavailable. Even I know that Wikipedia holds very high standards of verifiability for biographies of living people. I'm afraid this article's standards are not particularly high. Flowing dreams (talk) 09:20, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar 13:22, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Steve Alpert

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From content you can't find what he is notable for, Not independently notable outside of his company, lacks indepth coverage, WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 11:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notable entertainment businessman.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:53, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:RS and WP:GNG. Sheldybett (talk) 08:59, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no indication of notability. I considered merging to Studio Ghibli, but that article doesn't mention him and adding him would be undue and awkward. Argento Surfer (talk) 12:41, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) ~~ OxonAlex - talk 08:50, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Allen Adler (executive)

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Not independently notable outside of her company, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG, clearly corporate spam. Meeanaya (talk) 11:42, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Delete~~ - no independent sources in article or on web/news search. --Spacepine (talk) 12:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Question I am wondering if his position as an elected fellow may fulfill one of the notability guidelines for academics.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:22, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy keep Passes WP:PROF#C3 as a Fellow of the APS. XOR'easter (talk) 14:20, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - elected fellow of a major scientific honor society. Bearian (talk) 17:42, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - can't find his name in cited list of fellows [44] --Spacepine (talk) 12:08, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

nvmd, its under Edward Adler. Looks like it passes nacademic. Stricken !vote --Spacepine (talk) 13:15, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, meets WP:PROF#C3, it's clearly stated in this stub that he (not she) is a Fellow of the American Physical Society. Would the nominator please familiarise themself with the WP:SNG, to save other editors' time at AfD? RebeccaGreen (talk) 16:51, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, meets WP:PROF#C3. Lightburst (talk) 00:16, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) ~~ OxonAlex - talk 08:50, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rebecca Adamson

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Not independently notable outside of her company, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG, a well written promotional content to promote a founder. Meeanaya (talk) 11:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. I fail to see why Wikipedia should take a step back and start deleting biographies of women, who are less than 20% of its biographical content. This woman's award section indicates she is a notable businessperson. Sorry I don't remember for the life of me why I created this as a stub 10 years ago, but it was not for promotional purposes. Bill Moyers is certainly a reliable source. I also find Slate, Psychology Today, and NPR. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:05, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So on Slate, she has written one article, psychologytoday.com link is a blog, NPR links seems to be clearly a rountine coverage and billmoyers.com is not enough to establish her notability independently. If you can find more links after reviewing WP:RS, please do share here. Meeanaya (talk) 13:25, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of telling me to review the rules, you could review them yourself. -SusanLesch (talk) 14:48, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"We should keep it because Wikipedia doesn't have enough articles about women" is the biggest logical fallacy in the AfD. If the subject does not have adequate sourcing or general notability it gets deleted. Trillfendi (talk) 16:05, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

We should not keep any pages only because that they are for a particular gender. Meeanaya (talk) 18:28, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete the sourcing is not enough to show notability. That said, we have lots and lots and lots of such articles. However the solution is not to keep articles on people who are clearly not notable, it is for people to step up and nominate more articles for deletion.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:15, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I think there is enough meat here for notability. Better to add a notability tag then hard delete if you are concerned and see what comes up.Patapsco913 (talk) 17:22, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Patapsco913, can you please share a few links for her, which you believe are in-depth and covering her contributions and are not just routine coverage? Meeanaya (talk) 18:28, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Here are a couple. Smith college has even collected her papers for future reference.Patapsco913 (talk) 18:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ablow, Gail (May 16, 2017). "Making Change: Rebecca Adamson". Bill Moyers Journal.
Johansen, Bruce Elliott (June 22, 2010). Native Americans Today: A Biographical Dictionary. Greenwood. - there are further references at the end of the entry on Adamson as well
Toensing, Gale Courey (March 13, 2015). "Rebecca Adamson Has a Plan for Empowering Indigenous Peoples". Indian Country Today.
- The way I see this bio is that she is not a one-hit wonder. She founded at least one major Native American organization. Her whole life has been dedicated to a slew of varied pro-Native American and indigenous activities (which is all sourced). Smith college is collecting her papers so she must have some credibility. Her whole life is her notability. When she dies, I would expect that there will be a nice all encompassing obituary. The article definitely needs cleanup but not to be deleted.19:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Snowball Keep Besides any of the above (including the "routine" NPR page, whcih one presumably only gets if one is notable enough for NPR) a quick gsearch gives me things like [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] after which it didn't seem for the purposes of AfD, worth searching any more. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:38, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Adequately sourced for general notability.--Ipigott (talk) 09:02, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: looks like there are enough substantial independent RS. I do understand how difficult it can be to assess this, especially before an AfD so no trouts are in order. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 15:28, 12 August 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Keep Between the article and the links provided above, the sourcing is adequate to establish wiki-notability. XOR'easter (talk) 16:17, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
keep - looks like a case of a lack of a WP:BEFORE search. A lack of female bios doesn't give anyone a free ride, but just checking the actual notability of a subject before nominating is also a good habit. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:00, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Snowball keep The Bill Moyers article alone contains enough well-sourced material to establish notability. I am also disturbed by the cookiecutter inappropriate nomination "Not independently notable outside of her company" (what company?) previously used to flag bio of another clearly notable woman (Jan Brandt) for AfD. HouseOfChange (talk) 20:35, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) ~~ OxonAlex - talk 08:49, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Katherine L. Adams

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Not independently notable outside of her company, lack WP:RS, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 11:38, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak Delete: I did some research but had a hard time finding references outside of directory-style information. I don't think she's independently notable, despite having such a prestigious position. Cosmic Sans (talk) 18:22, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep I think there is enough to do a rough biographical sketch that would be supported by WP:GNG. ([50], [51], [52]) I can't see [53]. I have no idea why the Columbia and NYU templates are in her article though.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:27, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep per TonyTheTiger. Bookscale (talk) 12:17, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I have edited the article, moving career info from the "lede" to a career section, and making it chronological from earliest to latest, rather than the opposite. I have also added several sources, and I believe that she meets WP:GNG. The sources that are independent are: Corporate Counsel Business Journal, Law360, Law.com, The Global Legal Post, and Hello!. Verification of some biographical details comes from a non-independent source, the University of Chicago Law School news, but that is surely reliable for when she graduated from there, and where she had previously studied. I haven't yet found a source for her birth and parents, but then I haven't specifically searched for that yet either. (I should say that I'm sure there is more in the Law.com article, but only the first para is accessible without a subscription, so I have added only a couple of citations to that source.) (I do wonder how much WP:BEFORE the nominator has done for these corporate AfD nominations.) RebeccaGreen (talk) 15:56, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: passes WP:GNG. Thank you for the partial clean up Rebecca, and for the sleuthing. WP:BEFORE was needed. WP:ATD Lightburst (talk) 00:21, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Drmies (talk) 13:38, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Baines (academic)

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Doesn't appear notable. The claim to notability is unclear. Perhaps, it's the books, but notability isn't inherited. Only primary sources, tagged with serious issues, and question of notability at talk page, running on almost 10 years now. Usedtobecool ^✉️ ✨ 10:48, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per WP:PROF based on citations of his works as seen in his Google Scholar profile. 4 works have over 100 citations.Thsmi002 (talk) 13:12, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per WP:PROF Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:06, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep, meets notability easily and also pass WP:PROF. Meeanaya (talk) 13:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Appears to lack sufficient sourcing to show notability, after clarifying the difference from a similarly named, more prominent award. RL0919 (talk) 11:25, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dadasaheb Phalke International Film Festival Awards

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Fails WP:RS and WP:GNG as a result of no reliable sources being found. Previously deleted and WP:MILL. AmericanAir88^(talk) 11:42, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy Keep there are references on this festival...better keep than delete. Ozar77 (talk) 17:09, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You apparently aren't familiar with our General Notability Guideline, since the number of reference isn't the threshold for inclusion. "Significant coverage" is required, and just showing up to photograph the event isn't the same thing as writing in depth about the festival itself. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:14, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Googling for this seems to reveal a number of sources covering the event, and not just passing mentions. — Amakuru (talk) 19:53, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Amakuru: Can you provide any? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Previous speedy deletion of article was for advertorial tone and copyvio; not non-notability. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 10:38, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep there are enough references for it and is very popular in the country. Meeanaya (talk) 18:31, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Meeanaya: I have to question your rationale. What do you mean it "is very popular in the country"? How old is this film festival? Looks brand new to me. Also, are you erroneously confusing this film festival for the Dadasaheb Phalke Award? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:40, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

delete I couldnt find any significant coverage for this festival. I think other users, including Amakuru, are getting the subject confused Dadasaheb Phalke Award. That award is presented annually at the National Film Awards ceremony by the Directorate of Film Festivals, an organisation set up by the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. The subject of this AfD is a result of brand highjacking, and WP:MILL. pinging @Amakuru, Meeanaya, and Ozar77: —usernamekiran(talk) 16:40, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Update: What I mean is, subject of this AfD, and Dadasaheb Phalke Award are two different things. They have nothing to do with each-other whatsoever. The only common thing is that they are named after a very respected film-maker Dadasaheb Phalke. —usernamekiran(talk) 16:33, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This is one of several run-of-the-mill awards that is confused with the Dadasaheb Phalke Award, which is the premier lifetime award in Indian cinema. See this Hindustan Times article about several such clones, and this current discussion that I (coincidentally) started yesterday on how to deal with this confusion/deception on wikipedia. As for the credibility and notability of this award itself: even after browsing through the award site I was unable to determine the names of the past award winners, and press coverage seems to limited to image galleries of attendees.
PS: Editors googling for sources should be aware that there is another (likely also non-notable) Dada Saheb Phalke Film Festival, with its own awards, run by a "research and branding company". Even real-world publishers like Times of India mix up press-releases by all these festivals/awards. Abecedare (talk) 16:03, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - As per Abecedare. See this Hindustan Times article (courtesy of Abecedare), where it is clear that people are using Dadasaheb Phalke's name to convey prestige and importance, and most of all, to make a quick buck. This article reeks of paid editing, too. Why would we care about what appears to be a brand-new festival? This organisation barely had a functional website in 2017. This isn't some polished festival organisation run by industry big-wigs. Also, Ozar77's argument above is invalid since none of the so-called references speak about the festival in any significant detail. Republishing press releases doesn't qualify as significant coverage, nor does publishing photos that you took of the event, since the press was almost certainly invited to help with promotion. Delete. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:07, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note for participants: See this current related discussion that provides some useful background and links. Feel free to chime in there too. Abecedare (talk) 19:37, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Fake copycat award piggybacking off the real one; fails GNG. TryKid (talk) 06:11, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar 01:29, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fotocapio

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Non-notable brand Collaboratio (talk) 06:47, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Lefcentreright (talk) 11:02, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No sign that the brand currently meets notability standards. Dunarc (talk) 18:55, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar 13:22, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pedro Crespo

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Non-notable academic Collaboratio (talk) 06:46, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Google Scholar gives him the h-index of 19 with top cited publications of 147, 85, 76. That's not enough for passing WP:PROF#C1 in a high citation field like electrical engineering. The article also mentions a "Bell Communications Research Award". The source provide for this award is just the general webpage of his institution. Even if the award could be verified from a better source, it seems to be an internal award from the Bell Communications Research company, where he worked for 8 years. I am not seeing anything else in the record to indicate passing WP:PROF. Nsk92 (talk) 20:24, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:NPROF and WP:ANYBIO. --Dom from Paris (talk) 10:09, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 11:22, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Diecast Car Collectors Zone

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Promotional article on non-notable buisness Collaboratio (talk) 06:14, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no references other than the group's website and a domain registration lookup (!) - does not meet WP:WEBCRIT which requires that online content "has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works" - fails WP:GNG, WP:ORGCRIT and other notability criteria; therefore, delete - Epinoia (talk) 01:25, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete purely promotional sources come nowhere near meeting WP:NORG --Dom from Paris (talk) 10:07, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Qasr-e Shirin. Consensus is against keeping the page. However, that consensus does not extend to the target page for the merge. I am going with what seems to be the closest significant geographically notable population center. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:44, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Parwiz border point

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Fails WP:GNG Collaboratio (talk) 06:13, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per WP:GEOLAND[54][55][56][57][58][59][60][61][62][63][64][65][66][67] فرهنگ2016 (talk) 14:53, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- So put the sources and content derived from them in the article. A few of these do have enough content to write an article, but expansion at Qasr-e_Shirin#Economy would work just as well. Reywas92^Talk 16:53, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/redirect to Qasr-e Shirin. Existence is not notability; there is no reason every border crossing in the world automatically would have an article when there is a dearth of substantive sources. Reywas92^Talk 15:17, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per sources found by فرهنگ2016 indicating passing WP:GNG. Oakshade (talk) 05:10, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge to Qasr-e Shirin or Iran–Iraq_border. Fails WP:GNG, the sources given above do not discuss the crossing itself in sufficient detail. WP:GEOLAND refers only to populated places and natural features, so is not relevant.----Pontificalibus 12:03, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Kermanshah Province where it is located - not notable enough for a stand-alone article per WP:NOPAGE - Epinoia (talk) 00:29, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. czar 14:51, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Richard P. Nielsen (academic)

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Fails WP:NACADEMIC and WP:NAUTHOR. Collaboratio (talk) 06:11, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. I think he has a good case for WP:PROF#C1 (searching Google Scholar for author:richard-p-nielsen finds five publications with over 100 citations each, all of which look likely to be the subject's) and #C6 (president of the Society for Business Ethics). The single book and it's published reviews aren't enough for another pass of WP:AUTHOR but they don't hurt either. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:28, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep based on the h-index and as president of a scholarly society. Bearian (talk) 17:44, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep passes WP:PROF#C6 (president of the Society for Business Ethics) Lightburst (talk) 23:52, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus defaulting to keep and w/o prejudice to a future renomination. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:46, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ace and Vis

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I found no notability for this duo. SL93 (talk) 23:30, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, per nom. bd2412 T 01:29, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

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Keep. As a duo they were at their most prominent during British pop's apartheid years, which no doubt will hinder sourcing from the "liberal" press, but this nomination smacks of Wikipedia's usual new-establishment double standards. RobinCarmody (talk) 21:13, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- What double standards? I would question notability for an article like this either way. SL93 (talk) 21:28, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Satisifies WP:ANYBIO "a well-known and significant award or honor" i.e. the Radio Academy Award their show received in 2004, and we describe the Radio Academy Awards as "the most prestigious awards in the British radio industry". Also coverage to satisfy WP:GNG e.g. 1, 2.----Pontificalibus 11:06, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - of the five references, one is to their BBC listing (where they worked), one is to Myspace (!), and one is to a book in which they are not mentioned. That leaves two refs to voice-online and peterboroughtoday (Peterborough Telegraph), neither of which are major sources - the mention is the Peterborough Telegraph is an announcement of a live broadcast - so they have not "received significant coverage in reliable sources" as per WP:GNG - their one award is not a major award as defined by WP:MUSICBIO (Grammy, Juno, etc.) - all in all, they do not meet the notability guidelines; therefore, delete - Epinoia (talk) 00:21, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is a whole section about them in the book, pages 96-98, in which their style of presenting on the radio is cited as an example, and their cultural identity and sociability are discussed. The Voice (British newspaper) is certainly a reliable source, and that article obviously constitutes significant coverage. These two are enough to pass WP:GNG. As to WP:MUSICBIO, that concerns musicians, not broadcast media presenters.----Pontificalibus 06:02, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep as a charted artist per WP:NMUSIC. RL0919 (talk) 11:21, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rocket Punch

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A new girl group who were announced all of five days ago and have yet to do anything. I'm struggling to find any sources that aren't just blog entries. Fails WP:BAND. Contested prod. PC78 (talk) 00:43, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, or redirect to Woollim Entertainment. On the contrary, you can find reliable Korean sources for the subject on Naver easily, such as Hankook Ilbo, TenAsia, iMBC, Herald Pop, etc. The article needs a lot of work, or it is a case of WP:TOOSOON. Heolkpop (talk) 18:25, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Granted, I've only looked at those links via an online translator, but they all just look like promotional fluff. That doesn't demonstrate notability. PC78 (talk) 22:22, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - To be fair, some info that weren't known are revealed in those sources, such as the names of members, its debut date, etc. I would still say it is a case of WP:TOOSOON, and a redirect is enough. The label Woollim is pretty known in the Korean music industry with three members of this girl group competed in Produce 48 – one of them is a former AKB48 member. Heolkpop (talk) 05:14, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. They've achieved a top 10 in Korea. I am sure there are more sources out there than there was in July, even if most would be in Korean media. Ss112 02:04, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep they haven't been around long but with a high charting release they pass criteia 2 of WP:NMUSIC and therefore should be included, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 17:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to withdraw this one given that things have changed in the last three weeks, but note that the article was premature at the time of creation and would probably have benefited from some time in draft space. PC78 (talk) 19:58, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - clearly an article to promote the group (WP:NOTPROMOTION) - a case of WP:TOOSOON - Epinoia (talk) 21:06, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Passes point two of WP:BAND, debut album ranked number six on South Korea's national Gaon Album Chart. Ə XPLICIT 07:44, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. I think this can be closed as keep, a lot of work has been done on the article and references now show that broadcasting contracts do receive coverage in their own right. there hasn't been a delete vote in over two weeks and keep votes since then all note the improving quality of the article. Fenix down (talk) 12:30, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sports broadcasting contracts in the United States

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This article is nearly just a list of what channels that sports are on. Infinite mission (talk) 22:30, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. Giant Snowman 08:11, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment An article like this can't pass GNG, Nominator needs to provide a policy based argument. Govvy (talk) 17:30, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails GNG. Barca (talk) 18:01, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep with concessions: I feel this article could be useful if it were restructured under the stand-alone lists guidelines, including more sources, and the extent and length of rights, perhaps in a table format. In addition, I'd recommend having a certain threshold for inclusion of specific competitions/leagues based on prominence/popularity/long-term notability. We have a ton of articles on this subject for other countries already, so this is a notable concept here. ViperSnake151 Talk 21:56, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep.Should be cleaned up to be more like Sports broadcasting contracts in the United Kingdom and some of the more developed 'Sports broadcasting contracts by country' articles. As ViperSnake151 stated, all these list pages can be more developed with more content and more sources than just listing the TV channels. Various sports league articles have cited sections like Premier League#Media coverage and National Football League#Media coverage, and thus these list articles can comply with WP:LISTN and WP:SALAT by compiling all this cited media and broadcasting content, and organising them into the separate 'Sports broadcasting contracts by country' articles. If this is the only page deleted and not the other 'Sports broadcasting contracts by country' articles, I'm afraid that some well-intentioned registered newbies in the U.S. will likely try to recreate this again, either like Sports broadcasting contracts in the United Kingdom or with the content I and ViperSnake151 described. Zzyzx11 (talk) 20:37, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. I have started to add some more content to the article, as an example to what can be done. I believe this is a notable topic that should be kept: the fact that U.S. sports broadcasting rights is a significant source of revenue for the International Olympic Committee and various sports leagues. It can be discussed what should be there and what should be not, but should be cleaned up instead of deleted. Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:14, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The article needs to be tidied up but it definitely should be kept, especially given that there are similar articles for many other counties. Rillington (talk) 13:21, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per ViperSnake151. The sources needed to demonstrate notability clearly exist, many of which were added recently by ZZyzx11. While the article certainly could use more work, it could function as a standalone list or general overview article. Alternaively, if expansion makes this article too large, it would still be a useful summary of any sub-articles that could concievably be created. If these subtopics are too specific, though, and would not be independently notable (unlike 2018 FIFA World Cup broadcasting rights, for example), the list can summarize everything in accordance with point 2 of WP:CSC. ComplexRational (talk) 13:03, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep A very poor nomination rationale and has been improved significantly, which the nom could have done rather than ask for deletion. Nate • (chatter) 00:34, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - AfD is not cleanup, notable topic. Bookscale (talk) 12:15, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar 01:20, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Trackside (record producer duo)

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A non-notable recording producer team. Sources consist only of passing (one word) mentions. No significant coverage is available. Fails WP:N and WP:NMUSIC. The topic is merely mentioned in articles that cover recording artists. Steve Quinn (talk) 04:29, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Note – Several song and album articles linked to here – wbm1058 (talk) 12:56, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Simply a matter of WP:TOOSOON, I think, since they worked on a charting song, which kind of arguably meets the qualifications of WP:MUSICBIO. I just have trouble thinking it passes GNG as well right now, although again, charting song is great. JamieWhat (talk) 04:17, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - of all the references, only one is about the duo and that is a one-paragraph article from a WP:NONENG questionable source (WP:QUESTIONABLE, without a reputation for fact-checking or editorial oversight) - all other mentions in other sources are in passing (WP:TRIVIALMENTION) - does not meet WP:CREATIVE or WP:MUSICBIO; therefore, delete - Epinoia (talk) 21:01, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:23, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Miracle in Toyland

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Non-notable film, fails WP:NFILM by multiple criteria. Bbarmadillo (talk) 10:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete The film definitely exists, but a search on all reference sources have yielded little to no results. Imdb is not an adequate source and this leads to a violation of WP:NFSOURCES. AmericanAir88^(talk) 13:38, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - does not meet WP:NFO: "The film is widely distributed and has received full-length reviews by two or more nationally known critics" or any of the other criteria of WP:NFILM - lack of references (except for unreliable IMDB) fails WP:GNG - therefore, delete - Epinoia (talk) 20:31, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:23, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of fictional beauty queens

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fails WP:LIST and WP:FICTION, also unsourced. Sheldybett (talk) 09:52, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - unsourced, and trivial. --Spacepine (talk) 13:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Might not meet CSD G4, but it does not address the concerns in the previous AfD. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 20:04, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete- did not meet notability.-Richie Campbell (talk) 00:55, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. WP:LISTCRUFT and trivia. Ajf773 (talk) 20:08, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per the nominator's rationale. It fails WP:LIST and WP:FICTION, and seems to be rather trivial. Aoba47 (talk) 23:15, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - wow. simply wow. Can we get any more trivial and irrelevant. Oh, wait, perhaps, List of fictional beauty kings.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 02:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Couldn't find any sources discussing fictional beauty queens as a group per WP:NLIST aside from ad-supported listicles like this. It doesn't help that the article is unsourced. Daß Wölf 04:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Clearly fails WP:LISTN. My Google search for "fictional beauty queens" and a few similar terms did not turn up any reliable sources that discuss fictional beauty queens as a set. However, I did come across Category:Fictional beauty queens, which was created by the same editor who created this list. Should this category be deleted as well as original research? – Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 04:33, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Apologies for jumping in, but I am not sure if the category would count as original research if the characters are explicitly said to the beauty queens. I could see the category as comparable to Category:Fictional cheerleaders, Category:Fictional governesses, and Category:Fictional maids in that it helps a reader find a character by an occupation. Aoba47 (talk) 01:01, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Draftify to Draft:Protocinema. I recommend that the article be rewritten to cover Mari Spirito instead and then reviewed carefully before re-publishing to mainspace. I've actioned the move and suppressed the redirect under WP:CSD#R2 (with page mover) (non-admin closure) Steven Crossin ^{Help resolve disputes!} 13:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Protocinema

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Fails WP:ORG. Most of the mentions for the organization are trivial mentions and relate to its founder Mari Spirito (such as this Artforum article). As such, this article should be deleted and turned into Mari Spirito personal page (bio). Bbarmadillo (talk) 09:34, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete it is possible that an article could be made for this organization, but it would have to be started over. The current one is a non-encycopedic listing of events. DGG ( talk ) 23:55, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Delete~~ the current article needs TNT. But is it notable at all? I tend to doubt it based on coverage. The artists they show are notable. All I saw in a search was several variations on "Protocinema, which commissions and presents site-aware art around the world".ThatMontrealIP (talk) 04:00, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify or redirect to Mari Spirito, for whom SIGCOV exists, per Theredproject's sugestion below.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 03:17, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Question what do you all think about draftifying the article, so that it can be rewritten into a page for Mari Spirito? I don't think that it can be transformed during the course of this AFD, but maybe Joebee32 could work on the conversion? 26 results in an Artforum search plus [68][69][70][71] --Theredproject (talk) 01:06, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Good call. I will modify my !vote above.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 03:17, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:49, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Islamic Azad University, Science and Research Branch, Tehran

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Rather promotional article on a branch of a private university system in Iran. The article is basically unsourced, the only live "reference" being a link to the website of the main university of which this is a branch (and also some in-text external links to faculty websites). While we consider universities automatically notable, the same is not true for university branches. I tried to redirect this to our article on the university (Islamic Azad University, not a very good or neutral article either), but that is being contested. I do not see any independent notability and given the edit warring over the redirect it would appear that it is best to delete and redirect. As an aside, I consider this also a candidate for G11, but my tag was removed within a minute. Randykitty (talk) 08:37, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. This article is about a university as a branch of the Islamic Azad University. So please do not delete this page. Thanks. Mahdad (talk) 09:12, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and redirect - as per Randykitty. Promotional article, with no real indication of notability. I would have included the sister articles, Islamic Azad University, South Tehran Branch and Islamic Azad University, North Tehran Branch in this as well. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 11:28, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep literally the same number of students as University of Melbourne, the branch is notable in its own right see here --[E.3][chat2][me] 13:05, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I added a lot of refs. Others should be added by Persian speakers but they are news sources. It is considered to be a separate institution for the purposes of the Nature Index if we must be western centric about it. The university system has 1.3 million students, we would include individual "branches" of large university systems in predominant English speaking cultures if they had so many students. It just needs better sourcing but they're all notable and verifiable. Just perhaps not in western news sources. --[E.3][chat2][me] 13:53, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise you'd be deleting Islamic Azad University of Ahar, Islamic Azad University of Arak, Islamic Azad University of Arsanjan, Islamic Azad University of Astara, Islamic Azad University of Bojnourd, Islamic Azad University Central Tehran Branch, Islamic Azad University of Damavand, Islamic Azad University of Falavarjan, Islamic Azad University of Farahan

Keep In fact, this is the most important branch of Azad University (which is not a private university in Iran).Farhikht (talk) 16:05, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This is notable enough to merit its own page, considering its size. HAL 333 04:25, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect. Consensus here that the articles don't independently meet notability criteria to warrant a standalone article. I've gone ahead and performed all the redirects, any content missing that needs merging can be done from article history. (non-admin closure) Steven Crossin ^{Help resolve disputes!} 02:38, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Darby (Cambridgeshire cricketer)

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Fails WP:GNG, and by extension WP:N, and the coverage is routine statistical listings. The subject made a single first-class appearance and is long since retired. Technically, the subject meets WP:CRIN, but this forms a part of WP:NSPORT, which clearly states that "the meeting of any of these criteria does not mean that an article must be kept". Per this discussion, community consensus is that "subject-specific notability guidelines do not supersede the general notability guideline, except in clear cases where GNG does not apply." In these cases, coverage is so meagre that we do not even have the players full name. Given the era in which the subjects played (1830s and 1840s), it is extremely unlikely research will ever discover more. (Possible merge/redirects at List of English cricketers (1826–1840) or List of Cambridge Town Club and Cambridgeshire cricketers, though note that a lot of links from the latter lead to the former.) Harrias ^talk 08:17, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reason:

Redirect to relevant lists. I would go along the lines of:

Darby, Duke, Sprig and Salamoni to List of English cricketers (1826–1840) - which already has suitable detail in for each case

Ward to List of English cricketers (1841–1850) - which needs to be worked on. I hope to get to this list some time in the northern Autumn

I'm surprised that I didn't propose a merge on each of them when I was working on the 1826–1840 list - maybe it was on my to-do list. This is consistent with the treatment of Chitty - as detailed at Talk:Chitty (cricketer) which has a link to the relevant AfD and to a follow up discussion (which can be found at the archive of the closing admin) In cases such as these - brief biographical information only, only very limited matches played etc..., this seems like a suitable compromise that has tended to be accepted by a range of editors. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:20, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all or redirect all as above. They don't meet the sport-specific criteria and none of the coverage is significant enough to warrant GNG. No Great Shaker (talk) 14:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect all as above. These persons may be qualified for listing in Wikipedia, but they are not identifiable enough to warrant having separate articles about each of them. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 16:13, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all These articles have too little detail to justify seperate articles. Everything known can be covered on some list somewhere.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:27, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and redirect all to the relevant lists, as suggested by Blue Square Thing. As has been pointed out numerous times, these aren't even really biographies. They're score cards, and diluting this information over hundreds of unexpandable microstubs is a disservice to the reader. Lists are a superior option. Reyk _YO! 19:43, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as per Blue square thing, we will never know enough about these people to warrant separate articles Seasider91 (talk) 22:10, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect but maintain categories, if possible. StickyWicket (talk) 08:27, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all or redirect all per others. first name and details of birth and death unknown and unknown handedness batsman whose bowling style is unknown is not what readers would expect to read in a biography. Dee 03 04:59, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all. WP:CRIN states "Judge notability by reference to a substantial secondary source that makes clear it is discussing a senior player, team, venue or match in historical rather than statistical terms". These article are sourced only to statistical tables with no significant coverage. Fails WP:GNG. ----Pontificalibus 10:25, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete. Deleted by Fastily (talk · contribs) on 14:28, 13 August 2019 as "G7: One author who has requested deletion or blanked the page – If you wish to retrieve it, please see WP:REFUND". czar 14:56, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Karan Acharya

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WP:BLP1E A loose necktie (talk) 05:03, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I don't see that the artist is notbale. It appears to me that the "Angry Hanuman" has received more attention than its creator. If anything is notable here at all, it would be the graphic. If the image is notable, and critical analysis of its significance exists in reliable sources, then perhaps an addition to the Hanuman article that covers contemporary depictions and their political implications might be appropriate. Vexations (talk) 23:18, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Have significant multiple reliable coverages about him. Do not qualifies WP:BLP1E as his latest artwork was also noted by leading Indian newspublisher India Today See : [72]

Hineyo (talk) 05:24, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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One topic, even in a leading Indian newspaper, = 1 event. If he is notable for one event, then he qualifies as a "flash in the pan" news item which is not the sort of thing we usually maintain articles on. Is he notable for anything else? If so, what is it? If not, then this kind of article is usually deleted. A loose necktie (talk) 06:06, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947 ^{^{^(c)}}, at 05:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Looks like BLP1E to me.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 04:02, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus defaulting to keep and w/o prejudice to a future renomination. - Ad Orientem (talk) 02:51, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Cowgirl's Story

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Non notable film, article has only one citation which doesn't strongly support article as a whole AutumnKing (talk) 16:36, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Delition Not enough sources(i've found two others, they are on the talk page). No press releases or books mention the film.Timur9008 (talk) 19:47, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Oppose Deletion the article exceeds the standard of many other direct-to-video film articles, tv movie and family film articles I've seen. There are so many horror films with articles of even lower quality. If you're going to delete this it should only be part of a larger policy. You really need to set some standards and guidelines and apply them consistently because there are so many articles far worse than this one. It should be more than enough to WP:VERIFY the film, and requiring articles such as these prove some arbitrary definition of WP:NOTABLE is too high a bar for most non-theatrically released films. A small short article isn't necessarily a bad thing. -- 109.79.80.26 (talk) 22:41, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep clearly meets WP:FILM. Sheldybett (talk) 09:34, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. So far, the arguments to Keep vary between WP:ILIKEIT and WP:OSE. Yet, subject fails WP:NFILM, and specifically WP:NFO, which is quite clear: The film must have been widely distributed and received full-length reviews by two or more nationally known critics; historically notable; given a commercial re-release, or screened in a festival, at least five years after initial release; featured as part of a documentary, program, or retrospective on the history of cinema; received a major award for excellence; selected for preservation in a national archive; or taught as a subject at an accredited university. Editors who support Keep are invited to point out spefically which of these criteria and exactly how are satisfied. Wikipedia is not the Catalogue of All Movies Ever Released. -The Gnome (talk) 20:02, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- That is an incorrect interpretation of WP:NFILM. If a film meets one or more of the above quoted list of criteria it is very likely to be notable and pass WP:GNG but it can pass GNG without meeting any of the criteria, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 22:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Read again, please, the opening paragraph of WP:NFILM (with my emphasis added) and see for yourself if WP:GNG on its own suffices for films: For the majority of topics related to film, the criteria established at the general notability guideline aka GNG is sufficient to follow. This guideline, i.e. WP:NFILM, which is specific to the subject of film, explains GNG as it applies to film and also takes into consideration other core Wikipedia policies and guidelines as they apply to determining stand-alone articles for films. In so many words, WP:NFILM was created above and beyond GNG, which alone is no longer sufficient. And if Wikipedia articles about films have been allowed in the past to stay up on the basis of GNG only, past indiscretions are not a valid reason for their continuation. Once again, then, contributors to the AfD are invited to point out which, if any, criteria delineated in WP:NFO are satisfied. I quoted them above. -The Gnome (talk) 09:22, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You're mistaken, read WP:NFO: "topic related to film may not meet the criteria of the general notability guideline, but significant coverage is not always possible to find on the Internet, especially for older films. The following are attributes that generally indicate, when supported with reliable sources, that the required sources are likely to exist:The film is widely distributed and has received full-length reviews by two or more nationally known critics.

The film is historically notable, as evidenced by one or more of the following:

Publication of at least two non-trivial articles, at least five years after the film's initial release.

The film was deemed notable by a broad survey of film critics, academics, or movie professionals, when such a poll was conducted at least five years after the film's release.[2]

The film was given a commercial re-release, or screened in a festival, at least five years after initial release.

The film was featured as part of a documentary, program, or retrospective on the history of cinema.

The film has received a major award for excellence in some aspect of filmmaking.[3]

The film was selected for preservation in a national archive.[4]

The film is "taught" as a subject at an accredited university or college with a notable film program.

These criteria are presented as rules of thumb for easily identifying films that Wikipedia should probably have articles about that. In almost all cases, a thorough search for independent, third-party reliable sources will be successful for a film meeting one or more of these criteria. However, meeting these criteria is not an absolute guarantee that Wikipedia should have a separate, stand-alone article entirely dedicated to the film." In other words the criteria are a guide for determining WP:GNG not inclusion criteria in and of themselves, please confirm with the wikiProject Film members if you are still unsure, or any admin should Know as well, GNG always applies independently to SNGs except WP:CORPDEPTH in terms of companies and organisations. Atlantic306 (talk) 16:24, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fine. This should be debated elsewhere. To move on with this AfD, we accept that WP:GNG applies first and then, if necessary, we look into WP:NFILM. Clearly, the subject of this article fails WP:NFILM. I already listed the specific demands in NFILM and invited participants to indicate which NFILM criterion is satisfied. So far, no takers. Let's proceed on the basis of GNG.

This well known guideline states: If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article. So, where is the significant coverage? Where are the reliable sources? We have

a rather obscure publication about horse breeding (here)
two articles in Deadline Hollywood but they are about Bailee Madison and Chloe Lukasiak, two actresses in the film rather than about the film itself
same goes for the report in the International Business Times
a press release, for crying out loud, here by a press release agency, PR Newswire;
a portrait of Colandod Scott here in Tennessee Valley's Times Daily;

and then a couple of reviews from the usual suspects, i.e. Common Sense Media, the organization promoting family values, and Family Home Theater, another organization with the same agenda.

If editors assess all that as significant coverage in reliable sources then we live in different worlds. -The Gnome (talk) 07:26, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment there is one reliable sources review from Commonsense Media referenced in the article but more is needed, will look later Atlantic306 (talk) 22:50, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Atlantic306 is right. Meeting GNG is sufficient for notability. Subject-specific guidelines, such as WP:NFILM are useful for extended ways to meet notability; however, none are requirements to meet notability. dawnleelynn^(talk) 01:08, 11 August 2019 (UTC) P.S. Let me point out that the subject-specific guideline for film was created as a short essay on July 5, 2006. Prior to that, editors were quite capably establishing notability for films with just GNG. dawnleelynn^(talk) 02:54, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the input dawnleelynn. Please check out my response to Atlantic306. Take care. -The Gnome (talk) 09:22, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the response. It was my mistake not to list the policy. Per the GNG, "A topic is presumed to merit an article if: It meets either the general notability guideline below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific guideline listed in the box on the right;..." GNG is the dominant policy over any SNG; meaning that an SNG cannot overrule the GNG and claim that its criteria is required over that of the GNG; the GNG states either one or the other is acceptable. dawnleelynn^(talk) 18:24, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I didn't add a shortcut because it's right near the top. dawnleelynn^(talk) 03:17, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ad Orientem (talk) 04:34, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose delete Article content does not determine notability. See WP:ARTN. dawnleelynn^(talk) 03:14, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Could you please clarify your suggestion, dawnleelynn? Are you supporting Keep or Delete? Thanks. -The Gnome (talk) 07:26, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Good question, The Gnome. It was an oppose against deleting the article based only on the article's sources. A pass should be made for outside sources. In fact, I will do one a bit later. I'll change my decision if I don't find enough. dawnleelynn^(talk) 17:54, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Here are some external sources I found: Reviews - [73], [74], [75], [76], [77], [78]. Trailers - [79], [80]. For Sale sites - [81], [82], [83], [84]. Rentals - [85], [86], and [87]. Misc - [88]. Interviews - [89] and [90]. I will disregard any that are not relevant if pointed out to me. dawnleelynn^(talk) 20:54, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Letterboxd is just a message board with public input ("a social network for grass-roots film discussion"), like reddit (see WP:ABOUTSELF); we've already been through Horse Nation ("an obscure publication about horse breeding") and Family Choice, an organization with the same agenda as CSM; then, there's this link taking us to the personal blog of an Evangelical, self-help promoter; and a simple listing in Moviefone, which lists everything. Trailers and sales ads are of course irrelevant to notability. And the Bailee Madison interviews are about, well, Bailee Madison and not the film. I've already checked all these links; they do not by any means constitute evidence of notability. -The Gnome (talk) 05:50, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point on most of the links. However, I did look at the interviews. The short one at Tigerbeat is three actors talking about their parts in the movie. In the longer interview with Bailey, there is a good portion where she discusses the movie. So, in the two links you didn't mention, I gather they may attribute some to notability, the Fandango link and the filmmuscreporter announcing the soundtrack. The movie rental links I also didn't see specifically mentioned but they are probably the same as the sale links I'm thinking. So we have at most 4 links in this bunch. But to be clear, the rest of the links out there are just more of the same really, not anything more that is notable. Put these four with what's in the article, and what do we have? This is why I think it's good to do the search so we can say the subject is notable or not based on all the sources, internal and external. This is what GNG says.dawnleelynn^(talk) 21:43, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The similarity of the texts of the various mentions strongly sugegsts an advertorial process, with an agenda behind it. This is fake notability. -The Gnome (talk) 06:39, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, first of all, I read about the advertorial process and it's all about print no mention of online. So, I have a question, this is a direct to dvd movie. What review sites would you expect to see it on to be notable? I see it is on Rotten Tomatoes, but I am puzzled why it's an external link. I am familiar with roger ebert's site, new york times, variety, the guardian, cinemablend, rollingstone, filmsite, metacritic, hollywoodreporter, pluggedin as examples.

Ok, other notes, I don't think other editors who commented in the first discussion realize they need to comment again in this second discussion. Especially the nominator. At any rate, I looked at the sources in the article. A big issue is that the main body of the article has no sources. The article is also still tagged as a stub but it's larger than a stub now. Per the deletion process, which asks us if we can keep it as as stub, no argument can be made to keep it as a stub now. The deletion process asks us to consider if it could be kept with clean up tags as well. But there is no point to tagging it with refimprove since we have searched for the external sources and find there is not enough. Sources about the actors would be welcome in an article that had a well rounded discussion of the movie and sources for it; but that is not the case here. Is this a fair assessment? dawnleelynn^(talk) 18:25, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: There is a noticeboard discussion on whether Common Sense Media's review of A Cowgirl's Story and their other film reviews are reliable and independent enough to count toward a film's notability (WP:GNG/WP:NFILM). If you're interested, please participate at WP:RSN § Common Sense Media. — Newslinger talk 08:47, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- There seems to be a consensus so far that Commonsense Media is an acceptable review for GNG, will look for more reviews tomorrow, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 22:58, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Unfortunately I couldn't find anything that hasn't already been mentioned Atlantic306 (talk) 16:54, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:53, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mr. Belt & Wezol

AfDs for this article:

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Recreation of an earlier removed article. Fails WP:MUSICBIO, Unable to locate reliable secondary sources to support notability. The Banner talk 21:28, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Should not be deleted as the artists exist and are well known and very active in EDM circles. 2a00:23c5:8f93:b100:71e9:e59d:dce4:dd21 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
Keep per article in the Eindhovens Dagblad and frequent coverage of new releases. gidonb (talk) 13:17, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Article meets the WP:GNG. 18 references (!) have been directly added to the article. There are plenty more! gidonb (talk) 19:18, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there are plenty sources about their appearances and tracks. But what we need are sources about the duo itself. The Banner talk 21:18, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Articles about the arts are almost always before/after shows or releases. This is how the arts media works. All the references, except for a few general festival lineups, are about the duo. WP:GNG is clearly satisfied. gidonb (talk) 00:21, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To be true, I am not exactly impressed by the long list of non-notable festivals where they have performed. The Banner talk 12:31, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Also irrelevant to WP:N. The indepth coverage establishes that the duo is notable. Besides we do not know if any or all of these festivals are not notable. No articles were created and no AFD discussions were held. All red herrings. The premise is also wrong. At the very least, Weekend Festival in Stcokholm has an article. Some other festivals have an article at nl.wiki, where you also try to have this article removed. Dutch DJs are not less notable than other entertainers. On the contrary, Holland has developed an internationally succesful tradition of DJ-ing. gidonb (talk) 23:01, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

They were not exactly headliners on that festival, playing a side-stage. Beside that, in Wikiworld a festival is notable when it has an article. If not, it is deemed to be not-notable. The Banner talk 07:14, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Some of these festivals have WP articles, here or at nl.wiki, others not. These (non-)articles can be true or false positives or negatives hence your claims are meaningless. Nothing but a smoke screen. The duo is notable because it meets the WP:GNG. gidonb (talk) 08:38, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Your claims and the prove thereof are at best flimsy. The Banner talk 09:00, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Very solid. That's why I do not need distractions... gidonb (talk) 09:30, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And that is why I have removed the irrelevant and excessively long quotes from the references of the article. Everybody should be able to look the info up in the given sources. The Banner talk 12:53, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The information removal from the article will not make a difference. This nomination is a WP:BEFORE failure. gidonb (talk) 00:09, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

LOL, after adding countless non-notable festivals, you claim that I did not do my homework proper? Funny. The Banner talk 10:47, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

At least you can laugh it away! The facts that is was so easy to prove WP:GNG, charts were overlooked, your arguments here are really distractions that only work in your parallel nomination at nl.wiki, and that you need to take WP:OWNERSHIP over the article during the AfD are telling. When it is a football club that others try to delete you are happy that I reference (thank you!). Here it was one that you nominated. Nothing of all this is personal. gidonb (talk) 11:55, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Well known with lots of coverage, article needs improvement but is still definitely notable.--Seacactus 13 (talk) 01:49, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Can someone demonstrate all this coverage that exists? Because there’s only 2 sources in the article, and one is Discogs (not usable) Sergecross73 msg me 01:09, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For now, I've split between references (ED) and external links (Discogs, SoundCloud). gidonb (talk) 01:52, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, sure...but that leaves us with...one local newspaper? That’s not enough to pass the WP:GNG. Sergecross73 msg me 02:50, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not local and there's much more. I may or may not get around to referencing. Very busy. For an individual to decide on keep or delete one should look at the sources, NOT at the references, as both opionion expressors did. They speak of coverage, i.e. sources. The IP opinion may not carry a lot of weight. gidonb (talk) 05:18, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Right, I know that it’s about the existence of sources, but as long as everyone is just saying “there are sources” without proof of it here or at the article, their stances are going to be dismissed as WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES. Sergecross73 msg me 11:41, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I will probably find time to reference the article in the weekend. I did add the best source that I saw -- a long and detailed article in a well-read regional newspaper -- and have split off the non-references to where these belong, the external links. The other references I saw are somewhat shorter, in music magazines. Usually articles about the duo's releases, as I mentioned above. In the meantime, anyone can see these in or reference themselves from Google News. gidonb (talk) 13:27, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Are you going to source all their tracks or are you also going to source the notability of the subject? Sources about the duo are still fairly scarce, hre and on the internet. The Banner talk 07:49, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Banner, as I said from start, most articles I found were published after song releases. I only started mapping these. Many of these articles also contain information about the duo. The subject domains of individual tracks versus the recording duo are not mutually exclusive. Sources about the duo are not scarce. It is my conclusion that this the duo is notable per WP:GNG. WP:NEXIST also applies. The essay referenced above is totally irrelevant to my position. It looks irrelevant also to Seacactus 13, although I do not speak for him.

User:Sergecross73, the above was also to you. Remember before you make unreasonable demands of your peers: WP:NEXIST is policy, BTMBS is just an essay! gidonb (talk) 14:31, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Asking to prove the notability of a subject with independent (not in anyway related to the subject), reliable (no social media), prior published sources about the subject is not an unreasonable request. The Banner talk 15:43, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I just did in the article. Problem is that it creates inequality between those who look at the SOURCES and reach an educated decision that notability is sufficiently supported and lazy bums who can only depend on others. This inequality costs Wikipedia lots of great articles! gidonb (talk) 15:49, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I just took at a number of sources and removed spam and info not backed up by the sources. The Banner talk 21:20, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't exaggerate. A bit of cleanup. Tone a nudge down. Good edits. Thank you! gidonb (talk) 21:46, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - my search did not come up with any sources that would meet the WP:GNG, nor has anyone actually provided proof of meeting it above. One newspaper articles is not enough for the GNG, especially with a WP:BLP. Open to changing my stance if anyone actually follows through on their claims above. Sergecross73 msg me 13:36, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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@Ss112 Interested in your opinion on this one as it is outside of my more customary areas of editing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:29, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep...I see some evidence on the article that they've received some coverage in Dutch-language media, so maybe they haven't received a lot of attention outside of the Netherlands and Belgium/in English-language media. Outside of Beatport, which has a very transient chart listing (updated daily, I believe), they have appeared on the Belgian Ultratip charts (but have yet to break through to the Ultratop 50): [91] so I'm leaning towards weak keep here. Ss112 04:43, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- In fact, the Ultratip is a lower chart then the Ultratop. It works as a kind of pre-level before an number can enter the real charts. The songs there are tipped, but not charting. The Banner talk 17:05, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep They have press, they chart, they play a lot of festivals and they release original music. They have plenty of publicity too. ScienceAdvisor (talk) 21:42, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Sufficient sources have been added after it was nominated AfD to satisfy WP:GNG. Hzh (talk) 00:33, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Some reasonable suggestions here, but there's no consensus on what should be done with it and two relists didn't attract any further input. Michig (talk) 06:31, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Freddy, My Love

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Per WP:MUSIC Willbb234 (talk) 17:01, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Delete~~. No independent notability for this song, and there is no value to readers for this single-sentence article that offers zero extra info to the soundtrack article. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 20:20, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Eddie My Love per bd2412. Still insufficient evidence for independent notability, and I think readers are better served by having this material located within the target article. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 23:42, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Grease (musical), where this song originated. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:48, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Grease (musical) per above. Aoba47 (talk) 18:17, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Striking my vote because of the information provided by bd2412. I am uncertain on whether or not it satisfies notability, but I agree that if the information should at least be merged to the article on the musical if consensus is decided against independent notability. Aoba47 (talk) 01:19, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning keep. This song has some interesting history, being written (actually rewritten from the 1956 song, Eddie My Love) for the musical, excluded from the film (but included in the soundtrack, unlike some other songs that were left out of the film), and included in the 2016 live television performance. I have expanded and sourced the article. If not kept, the content should probably be merged to Eddie My Love, as a notable adaptation. bd2412 T 02:18, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the additional information. Aoba47 (talk) 17:50, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. Obviously a frivolous nomination. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:39, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

European hare

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Kayvon2008 (talk) 03:59, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep nomination of a well-sourced article about a notable subject. No rationale for deletion given. Obvious hoax by this user, who has added a number of these nominations at xFD. Railfan23 (talk) 04:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 01:17, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ko-fi

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No sources cited on page constitute as RS - either routine or affiliated with the company. A BEFORE search did not satisfy enough significant, independent coverage needed. Willsome429 (say hey or see my edits!) 00:35, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Lulz, I'm not affiliated to Ko-fi, I've not even used it in any form but is one of the most popular donation site for independent illustrators after Patreon. Most of the info I got from web archives from Archive.org, if I missed some sourcing I'd love to add them ;) Neko Spectrus (talk) 05:28, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Added several sources after a quick WP:BEFORE. Seems to have enough reliable sources from newspapers/magazines.Gilded Snail (talk) 19:34, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Response Hi Gilded Snail can you please post here any two links to articles that meet the criteria for establishing notability. "enough reliable sources" is not the full criteria - the sources must also provide in-depth coverage of the subject (WP:CORPDEPTH) and contain independent content (WP:ORGIND). I have examined the links added to the article and I do not see any that meet the criteria - perhaps I have missed something? HighKing⁺⁺ 16:59, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: Maybe needs more sources, I don't see GNG being passed here. --Mhhossein ^talk 13:43, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I am unable to locate a single reference that meets the criteria for establishing notability. Of the non-Primary sources and the non-obvious business-as-usual sources, this Vice reference is a mention-in-passing and fails WP:CORPDEPTH, this Image reference does not cover the topic in any depth (fails WP:CORPDEPTH) and relies on information provided by the founder (fails WP:ORGIND), and finally this The Week reference is churnalism, relying almost entirely on information provided by the company, quotations from the founder, fails WP:ORGIND. HighKing⁺⁺ 16:59, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - sketchy references such as Twitter (WP:TWITTER) and the company website - Ko-fi is not the subject of the articles in Verge, Vice Media and VentureBeat - does not meet WP:ORGCRIT - therefore, delete - Epinoia (talk) 19:10, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Consensus appears to come down in favor of deletion. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:54, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Best Damn Brewing Co.

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Non-notable brand (product) with just 53 mentions on Google News. Bbarmadillo (talk) 22:20, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Fails WP:ORG. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:10, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. Needs fixing, but there is sourcing and passes WP:GNG. – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 23:16, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. http://allaboutbeer.com/news/best-damn-brewing/ is a press release https://csnews.com/best-damn-hard-cherry-cola is based on a press release, as the article states: "according to the maker" https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/millercoors-seeks-sales-pop-gen-xers-hard-soda/302258 is about an ad for a competitor of the subject, which gets a one-line mention https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/breweries-roll-out-boozy-root-beer/article_5461fd6e-454a-51cf-9a55-f169c2e55ac8.html is about another competitor, and Best Damn Brewing Co. gets a mention, but it is not significant coverage.The GNG is not met and neither is NCORP. No independent, reliable sources have covered the subject in-depth. Vexations (talk) 11:32, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - GNG fail. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 00:26, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Impossible to fix, rubbish sourcing and fails GNG. HighKing⁺⁺ 18:29, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Passes WP:GNG - USA Today, The Daily Meal, Delish, and CNBC.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 19:27, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Passes WP:GNG per WP:RS found by Onel5969 Lightburst (talk) 23:43, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Doesn't satisfy WP:NCORP. The sources mentioned by onel5969 are poor. None of them have in-depth coverage of the company. USA Today is a regurgitated press release. — JJMC89 (T·C) 01:12, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] ttps://www.cnn.com/2017/06/06/politics/trump-tweets-official-statements/index.html

[Battles-2] Battles, Matthew (July 12, 2012), Wikipedia and the sum of human knowledge, metaLAB (at) Harvard, retrieved October 22, 2015 {{citation}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)

[Jerney-3] Jerney, John (October 22, 2002), The Wikipedia: The encyclopedia for the rest of us, The Daily Yomiuri, retrieved October 22, 2015 {{citation}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
Quote: "In particular, the goal of the Wikipedia is to produce the best encyclopedia encapsulating the sum total of human knowledge.... [It] offers the possibility of everything being written into history, with all of mankind sharing knowledge and information in a way that enables everyone to profit from it." — Wikipedia:Testimonials

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