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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  09:39, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

List of the largest airports in the Former Yugoslavia

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List of the largest airports in the Former Yugoslavia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Article is placing modern-day information onto an obsolete historical framework. Articles like List of airports in Croatia and List of airports in Serbia already exist, which present the same data in the right context. Bazonka (talk) 11:21, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 01:29, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 01:29, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - For the same reasons as above.
  • Keep as per FkpCascais and for keeping a historic record of these airports. Of Serbia and Croatia ceased to exist tomorrow, should we delete their lists? The correct answer is no. Lugnuts (talk) 09:58, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Well actually, yes we should delete those articles. In your hypothetical situation, Serbia and Croatia would be replaced by different political entities, and these would have their own Airports in articles. Unless they are retained as historical records of the airports that existed during their existence - but this article isn't like that, as it lists new airports that have been built since the dissolution of Yugoslavia. Bazonka (talk) 12:02, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, "the Former Yugoslavia" is here being used as a geographical area (similar to, but not quite the same as "the Balkans") rather than a political entity. A historical article would be titled List of largest airports in Yugoslavia, since calling it "former" would be an anachronism. Thryduulf (talk) 17:58, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, the issue is that Balkans would have been to large, and former Yugoslavia is used in this article because all countries share a commun aviation history including the fact that all the territory was part of the same country until 1991 and that most of the important carriers already existed back then (JAT, Adria, Aviogenex, etc.), while that link is innexistent with other Balkan countries. Similarly, Scandinavian list has the fact that the most important carrier SAS is common to all countries (just like JAT was back then), and the Baltic list has the fact that they were part of the same country, URSS, just as former Yugoslav republics were of Yugoslavia. Basically, all former Yugoslav countries share a common aviation history, beside many cooperation being still active nowadays. I don´t really oppose deleting this list if we have a common policy to all other regional lists, but deleting this one alone wouldn´t make sense. FkpCascais (talk) 19:53, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete if it stays in its current form. After all, we don't have a List of airports in the German Empire that includes airports in territories that were German until 1918 with passenger figures from last year! However, the list would make a lot of sense if it was a snapsot of the airport situation in Yugoslavia in 1991, or before, with passenger figures from then. Then it would be a definete Keep. Calistemon (talk) 12:30, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • You're analogy is incorrect, suggesting you've misunderstood this list - "former Yugoslavia" is purely a geographical reference. It would be equally accurate to name this as "List of the largest airports in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Slovenia" (if somewhat more cumbersome). If the area of the former German Empire was a commonly used supranational geographic region today then an article with present day figures for that area would be just as accurate as this and the List of largest airports in the Baltic states are. This is not a historical list, so using figures from other than the present day would be incorrect. Thryduulf (talk) 21:58, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It is possible I have misunderstood the purpose, but to me to have a current list of airports in a country that ceased to exist 20 years ago seems to invite misunderstanding or confusion. To come up with a really silly and exagerated example, what about List of airports in the former Roman Empire or, almost as silly, List of airports in the former Austrian-Hungarian Empire? Just sounds a bit wrong to me. Calistemon (talk) 01:47, 10 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Calistemon. It is hardly surprising that he/she has not grasped your understanding of the article because its scope is confused and confusing. The inclusion of the word "former" in the title doesn't really help - I think most readers are going to interpret it in the way that Calistemon and I have.
I know what you're trying to achieve with this article, Thryduulf, but I don't see the point. The only real argument given in its defence is that the former Yugolav countries work in cooperation. Well lots of countries work in cooperation, particularly in aviation matters - is there a need for a List of airports in Australia and New Zealand article for example? No. And in any case, cooperation in former Yugoslavia on many matters is not always that strong... Kosovo cooperates with Serbia does it?
If anyone needs to know about the information in this article, then it is hardly difficult to look at the separate airports articles for each of the constituent countries, which are presented in a much more logical manner. Bazonka (talk) 07:13, 10 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Why force people to look at several lists to find the information they need when we can logically present it as one list? Formatting issues are not a reason to delete anything, and I have no stake with this page (which I've never edited) other than to stop the deletion of an article I don't think should be deleted. I don't know why you think this is trying to be a list of airports in a country that ceased to exist 20 years ago, because it isn't. It's a list of airports in a supranational region that is a logical unit for air travel purposes. I doubt that Australia and New Zealand are a similarly useful unit, but I don't know enough to say categorically. The Benelux might (I've not looked) be a similar supra-national area; the Mid-western United Sates would be a subnational list of comparable scale. Thryduulf (talk) 10:41, 10 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but I just don't get it. Why would anyone need an article like this? The former Yugoslavia isn't a consistent and fully cooperative entity. Bazonka (talk) 11:24, 10 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Let's look at it from a different view: Is there still an authority or source out there that refers to the region in question as Yugoslavia for the purpos of air traffic, like, lets say, a Yugoslav air traffic control or a Yugoslav air safety authority? If there is still something official out there that uses the old countries name and supervises the area of the old country then the article has a right to exist, if not, delete. Calistemon (talk) 01:32, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete actually I can't see the point in any of the lists mentioned in this discussion, it all seems way to arbitrary to me - WP:NOT states "Wikipedia should not be excessive listings of statistics". What is the purpose of comparing pasenger statistics for airports in two different countries? Why not have List of the busiest airports in Germanophone Europe, so we can compare Hamburg Airport with Graz Airport and St. Gallen-Altenrhein Airport? If I want to visit Sarajevo, I'd fly to Sarajevo, my choice of airport is not going to be influenced by how many other people are flying to Belgrade. Why is it limited to the former Yugoslavia; why not the whole Balkans? Maybe it's more convenient for someone who wants to visit Serbia to fly in to Sofia. Dragging in the other examples used as justification for keeping this one; why compare passenger traffic at an airport in Iceland to one in Finland? That makes as much sense as grouping Australian and NZ airports - NZ is three hours' flying time from Sydney and Melbourne, let alone Adelaide and Perth. SAS is not common to all the countries in the Nordic list either, it does not operate domestically in Finland, Iceland or Greenland. If the decision is to keep, then the page needs to be moved to "busiest" airports, as "largest" is misleading. YSSYguy (talk) 03:01, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I just mentioned the other similar lists because this one was the last of the three to be made, and as they are of same nature, so either we have a consistent policy towards all of them, or otherwise there is no reason to have some accepted, and others not. Basically, if we eventually delete this one, and leave the others, we may still find some new user who will rightfully belave that he can create a similar one to this we deleted. We should consider the three lists together otherwise we risk to apply double standars for different lists. FkpCascais (talk) 04:55, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Also, in case of keeping, I do agree on your renaming proposal. FkpCascais (talk) 04:56, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If the decision here is to delete, then I will nominate the other similar articles for deletion also. Bazonka (talk) 07:11, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and rename. I presume this list and and the ones for Nordic countries and Baltic states exist because the countries in all three categories have a common history and common elements in their societies, which I'm fine with. (Though one cannot easily say a list for North America should exist because they have unique aviation regulation systems.) The flaw with this article is that the use of the term "Former Yugoslavia" implies a historical list of airports in existence during the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (1943–1992). The correct name in my view should be "List of the largest airports in states of the former Yugoslavia". —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 07:06, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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