Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of shopping malls in the United States (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Mr.Z-man 19:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of shopping malls in the United States[edit]

This is an incomplete list, and likely never will be complete (despite Wikipedia being a perpetual work-in-progress). The first nomination resulted in a no consensus, so I'd like to see if one can be achieved the second time around. No real !vote from me either way, this is somewhat procedural to determine if WP:NOT#DIR is applicable. Burntsauce 20:11, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Isn't this why we have [[Category:Shopping malls in the United States]] for?--Victor falk 21:16, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per Victor. Categories works fine. Burntsauce, can you post a link to the record of the first debate? Mandsford 22:59, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the nature of wikipedia and the commercial means that many lists will never be fully complete, but it does not mean that all incomplete lists should be deleted — Rotovia (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Delete. Categories should do this. We shouldn't waste time updating an actual directory. It looks like it's recently been turned into a list of "notable malls" so that it isn't pointlessly redundant and sprawling. What makes a mall "notable" is beyond me, but the user is quite right that including every mall we have articles for is ungainfully redundant. Cool Hand Luke 08:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete More suitable for a category. --RaiderAspect 12:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It appears we do not have a consistent policy or guideline to deal with these kinds of lists. List of Westfield Group shopping malls is a similar list that references other sub-lists and the community has rejected attempts to merge and/or delete those. As for the general comment that categories do essentially the same thing, Wikipedia has several lists that are more or less duplicates of categories. I'm not sure how we justify to keep this article OR to delete it. Truthanado 19:19, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - and request Wikipedia:WikiProject Shopping Centers adopt & improve (done). Lists and Categories can coexist. Just because you might be more comfortable surfing via Categories, does not mean everyone else finds it easy. WP is not paper, so we can afford more than one route to the destination. Exit2DOS2000^•T•C• 01:24, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as it just passed an AfD less than six months ago (July). Also, organized list of verifiable information are good reference tools. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 16:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Wrong, it did not "pass" an AfD less than six months ago. The result of the last discussion was a no consensus outcome. Burntsauce 20:22, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is a "no consensus" result unacceptable? Exit2DOS2000^•T•C• 02:51, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. "No consensus" is a common result of an AfD discussion. I was involved in one just last week. It results in keeping the article. For those familiar with American football and instant replay, "no consensus" is the same as "no conclusive evidence to overturn the call on the field". Truthanado 08:33, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete another list that should be categorized, also what indicates "shopping malls" every place with xxx stores on it. Jbeach56 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 00:26, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This article is different from a straight category listing. Many entries have a quick sentence establishing the mall's notability. This is worth keeping. Yes, the article is always in danger of just becoming a list of whatever malls someone wants to mention, but the article also receives a lot of attention from editors who are concerned about maintaining and improving the list's quality. So let's not be in a rush to delete it.--Ken Gallager 13:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Malls-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 00:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I don't think this is purely a directory, so I'd be reluctant to apply WP:NOT#DIR. Along those lines, Ken Gallager makes a good argument that information on the list establishes notability and I believe reading the list will give you some information on important malls regionally and historically, which is certainly encyclopedic. However, the arguments that this is a perpetually incomplete list, and a category is better suited to organizing these articles, are much stronger. Information about especially notable malls that have played a role in the history of US mall shopping on a regional or national level is useful, though, and should be documented in Shopping mall or preferable subarticles on the history of the shopping mall in the United States. I just don't feel like a list is the best way to document this, and since this list is never going to be complete, we don't need it. --W.marsh 14:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.