Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of rulers of Belarus

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 21:09, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of rulers of Belarus

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"Category:Belarusian rulers" has been deleted as anachronistic. The CfD reached an agreement that "Belarus" as we know it today didn't exist until the 20th century, and as Marcocapelle argued (successfully in my opinion), the princes of Polotsk, Minsk, Turov and the Grand Duke of Lithuania aren't considered to be Belarusian except in nationalistic propaganda. That means all entries up to 1795 are to be deleted; it might be useful to move some content from List of rulers of Belarus#Rurikid Belarus to Prince of Polotsk before we do so. What remains is little more than a WP:REDUNDANTFORK of List of national leaders of Belarus (which should probably be renamed List of heads of state of Belarus); we might move some content from the former to the latter if useful. The reason why I'm not proposing this as a "merge" but a "delete" is because of the vagueness of the term "ruler". We should no longer use the term "ruler" to lump very different types of positions/jobs together. (See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 25#Category:Rulers, and search for my "Thanks for chiming in" comment for more commentary on Belarus). The now-deleted "Category:Belarusian rulers" also excluded any non-monarchs, so all 20th- and 21st-century presidential/parliamentary republican heads of state wouldn't fit in it anyway. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:56, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on "national leader" versus "head of state": The opening sentence of List of national leaders of Belarus contains a statement which argues against the idea that some of the people mentioned weren't "head of state", and thus the article shouldn't be renamed List of heads of state of Belarus: ...including its presidents both before and after the Soviet era, and the Soviet leaders themselves, who, unlike the Presidents, were not formal Heads of State. Should we take that seriously? The titles are "chairman", "executive secretary" and "first secretary", not "leader", let alone "national leader'. Especially in a Soviet Communist context, which is explicitly internationalist and anti-nationalist, "national leader" doesn't make much sense. "head of state" seems perfectly fine to me. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:05, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2023 March 8. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 09:20, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Belarus. Shellwood (talk) 10:54, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The article that is needed is "list of national leaders of Belarus". The useful bit of list of rulers of Belarus is a content fork; i.e. it describes the same subject.
I suppose you could have a list of rulers of Belarus that included the rulers of the territory that is currently within the borders of the present nation state. But if you were going to do that, you would have the de facto rulers of the countries concerned: Tsarist Russia, then Poland and the U.S.S.R. in parallel, followed by the U.S.S.R. followed by the present nation-state of Belarus. A history of Belarus is a better way to handle that.-- Toddy1 (talk) 12:28, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My thoughts exactly. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:30, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:16, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete/redirect to list of national leaders of Belarus. Stifle (talk) 13:13, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.