Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of recurring Neighbours characters

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to List of Neighbours characters. Liz Read! Talk! 03:39, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of recurring Neighbours characters[edit]

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List of recurring Neighbours characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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A long list with single reference, unnecessary duplicating parts of List of Neighbours characters and failing WP:NLIST. It should be merged or redirected there, which would also be consistent with Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Neighbours characters where it was mentioned and where the close verdict was Merge into single article. This time the closer should (assuming similar consensus) redirect the article instead of waiting for someone to do the merge; clearly, someone is not coming and the effectively unreferenced status of this is not very helpful. PS. See also related and currently ongoing Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of former Neighbours characters. Moving characters from list to list (former, recurring, present...) is pointless make work. Editors interested in this should rather try to improve a single list with content and references. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:46, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Very strong oppose: Nope, nope, nope for the same reason that List of former Neighbours characters wasn't deleted. You say that List of recurring Neighbours characters duplicates List of Neighbours characters. What parts are duplicated in that article? Literally none. That article is for characters that are currently recurring. The article for proposed deletion is for recurring characters who formerly appeared (please don't say that they therefore belong in List of former Neighbours characters – that article is for former regular characters only). This trend of proposing the deletions of all these soap character lists is getting a bit repetitive now. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 03:55, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"What parts are duplicated in that article?" Curtis Perkins is mentioned in both. Reece Sinclair and Trevor (dog) are metioned in the main list under recurring section, but not in the recurring list. Cleaning up this mess into a single list will help the readers too (as a reader, I find the current system very opaque, probably because it is developed by few Wikiproject members for themselves, not for an average encyclopedia reader - or even soap opera fan). There's a reason we have MoS and other policies (like GNG). Wikipedia is not fandom, where a group of fans can create their own walled garden that looks they way the like it, or fork it into variations (separate wikis on fandom, which for our soap opera coverage takes the form of ton of duplicative and confusing lists). It's high time to clean this up. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:42, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said, Trevor and Reece aren't in List of recurring Neighbours characters because that article is only for FORMER recurring characters. They are STILL recurring. As for Curtis, that's simply an oversight. He was only announced to be returning a few days ago and whoever added him obviously just accidentally forgot to update the other article, so that's just a very nit-picky mistake. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 22:12, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, do you mean that the article titled List of recurring Neighbours characters shold be renamed to List of former recurring Neighbours characters? IMHO this is pointless distinction that Curtis' example illustrates. If someone appears in the show more than once but is not part of the main cast, they are a recurring character. Why would you ever think that readers do not want to see information about them in the main list? I could understand having a section at the top dedicated to the current main cast, but after that, I see no reason not to include others. And I'd suggest doing it in one sortable table. It could be sorteds so that parameter for "current main characters" would be first, and then you could have other categories (former main, recurring, guest, etc.). People could also sort characters by date of first apperance (which I gather some folks care), and there cold be other info (like date of last appearance). There is no need to throw anything away, merging into one list will create a better tool then we have. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 00:41, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: @Piotrus: Hang on, hang on, hang on. So what are you actually proposing here? If the articles were to be merged, then what happens? Every single recurring character gets listed in List of Neighbours characters? - Therealscorp1an (talk) 22:26, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Therealscorp1an In short, yes. To elaborate, they can be listed in a subsection, sortable table, or not listed at all if they are not important enough to get coverage in sources per WP:V. If one list is good for Star Wars (List of Star Wars characters), or Middle-Earth (List of Middle-earth characters), it will do for a soap opera. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:17, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Piotrus: Alright, that's what I assumed. My only concerns (the rationale behind my opposition essentially) is that the article will be completely flooded by recurring characters. In the article that is being proposed to be deleted, characters who had 2+ appearances are listed, so some guests with 2 appearances are included. For this merge, I think it should actually only be recurring characters, not just guests. My second thing was that it will go against other soap opera articles in that for other soaps, "List of [soap] characters" is only for characters currently appearing. So it won't be consistent with the rest of these Wikipedia articles and the current state of "List of Neighbours characters" will have to be drastically altered into an unprecedented and thus most likely incoherent manner. Those are basically my main concerns. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 08:45, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Therealscorp1an While I am not a fan or expert on soap operas, I looked at one I think is relatively famous and the structure of the article at List of Dynasty (1981 TV series) characters seems very good. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:42, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
From what I see, that article is very different and wouldn't really suit Neighbours with how many characters there are, etc.. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 11:50, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Dynasty is completely different. It aired for less than a decade and had only 222 episodes whilst Neighbours has almost 9000. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 19:56, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The table would be longer, but so what? I don't think it would be too long. The recurring list is ~100kb. The former list is ~70kb. The main list is very short at just ~15kb. As much of this is wiki markup (table and reference code), the amount of readable prose is low. I don't see a problem with a merge, size wise. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:21, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This seems to be a very WP:POINTy nomination, the nominator is comparing list articles for soap operas which have aired for multiple decades with those which only have a decade or two worth of characters. They have also created previous nominations/discussions at List of Hollyoaks characers (1997), Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of former Neighbours characters, Talk:List of Neighbours characters, Talk:List of Home and Away characters, List of EastEnders characters, Talk:List of Doctors characters, Talk:List of Coronation Street characters, Talk:List of Emmerdale characters. The current list format is consistent with similar lists, it has been split because of WP:ARTICLESIZE requirements and deleting such a large number of lists will be detrimental to the purpose and functionality of a Wikipedia list. Whilst further referencing is needed, there is no tangible benefit in merging and creating an unnecessarily long list. Happily888 (talk) 02:17, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As I've said previously, I think the two offshoot lists should be combined first rather than trying to do everything all at once. An informed decision on whether merging fully into List of Neighbours characters would then be possible, and it prevents the current discussions from being an all or nothing scenario. U-Mos (talk) 10:56, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to List of Neighbours characters per rest supporters of merge. Dawid2009 (talk) 07:08, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Three articles about the one topic seems excessive. I can understand having two articles (one for current and one for former), but I don't see the need for a separate article about "recurring" characters. Furthermore, the concept of what a "recurring" character, and its difference from a "former" character does not seem to have been clearly defined. Chrisclear (talk) 13:24, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as there isn't a solid consensus but several different suggestions. I am reluctant to Merge or Redirect to List of former Neighbours characters as that article is also being discussed at AFD right now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 05:18, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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