Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of historical figures in Civilization IV

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Kurykh 01:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of historical figures in Civilization IV[edit]

This article was deleted in the prod process, the reason was that the content - list of characters - is not encyclopedic. However, several users later expressed an opinion that the list is in fact useful and should be restored. So I am putting it here to generate a broader consensus. Thank you for attention. Tone 11:52, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Might be useful (to a select group), but like many useful lists, it still isn't notable. Usefulness was never a criterion for inclusion. We're not an almanac. Also entirely OR.
Equazcion •✗/C • 11:59, 12/25/2007
Delete The information can be added to the article on the game, there's far too much computer game stuff here already. Nick mallory (talk) 13:30, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Anything on here could be said to only be useful to a select group, "notability" is up for debate, and "far too much computer game stuff here already" is baseless, opinion, and just silly. There are many, many lists of characters from books, movies, tv series, and games already; this one is notable in that they are all historical figures, and having them in one comprehensive list is a great tool for finding more information on the individuals. --Managerpants (talk) 13:51, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- TV show character listings can be notable if there are secondary sources that list them. This list is not notable because no secondary sources have seen fit to publish it. Also, this is different from a listing of major characters in a game or fictional work. This is basically a list of minor mentions. The game is notable; the historical figures mentioned in it are not (at least not in the context of the game). The incidental usefulness of such a list is irrelevant. Notability is just not there. Merge is a possibility. PS I changed your vote to "Keep" instead of "Don't Delete" cause that was kinda confusing to look at. I hope you don't mind but if you feel strongly about it feel free to change it back.
  Equazcion •✗/C • 13:57, 12/25/2007
  - Nope, I don't mind. You're right; it was confusing. I would be open to a merge, because I do understand where you're coming from. I wouldn't call it "gamecruft" or say that it is not notable, however. Just with a very quick Google search, I found at least one secondary source that lists them: "Answers.com". --Managerpants (talk) 11:39, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Answers.com mirrors many other sites, including Wikipedia, so if you see something there that we've got, chances are it came from us. In fact at the bottom of the page you linked to, there's a notice, "This entry is from Wikipedia". It's actually a direct mirror of this very article, so that obviously wouldn't be a valid secondary source. Sorry :) Equazcion •✗/C • 11:45, 12/26/2007
      - Haha, that'll teach me to not read all the way to the bottom! --Managerpants (talk) 13:29, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        Hehe. Don't worry, I've made the same mistake before. I think most editors who've tried searching for sources have :) Equazcion •✗/C • 13:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete hate using this term but this nothing more then gamecruft. Ridernyc (talk) 20:04, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOT#IINFO.-h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 22:55, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per notability, gamecruft, etc. --Rajah (talk) 21:24, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the list of video game deletions. Someone another (talk) 17:00, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep (article creator) I see this page as being just as encyclopedic as ABBA discography. It's a list of notable things, not really an article per se. The list was originally abbreviated and contained in the Civilization IV article... but as wikipedians completed the list it became too large (see here)... and we spliced it off in a sub-article (much like ABBA discography would have been spliced off into a sub-article).

The list is not a game guide... what you learn here won't help one bit in playing Civ 4. It was compiled because the game introduces many historical characters that players may not be familiar with. Abu Bakr might pop up as one of your country's prophets and you left are scratching your head as to who this guy actually was. Players who stumble upon this wikipedia list spend hours looking up all the figures they hadn't heard of... and consequently learn quite a bit... which is what an encyclopedia is for.

For any who are in favor of delete, if we do delete, then should we reintroduce this list into the original article? David Bergan (talk) 00:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That has some merit, but really not for Wikipedia. A non-notable article just doesn't belong, even if it is incidentally a useful list. And I wouldn't re-introduce it into the game article either. It's too big and sorry to say it is "cruft". The list does have merit for the purposes you suggest, just not on Wikipedia. I think you should post it somewhere else, like a game fansite. Equazcion •✗/C • 00:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I somewhat take that back. I don't really think it does any harm to leave the list in, if it really is that useful to people (and I can see how it would be). I would be fine with keeping the article, but I know there are those who respect policy as the gospel of some horrible bitch-goddess, so you might be out of luck. Equazcion •✗/C • 00:30, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - per WP:NOT#INFO and WP:GAMECRUFT. At best, this deserves two or three sentences in the main article that the leaders of the different factions and some units are in fact historical figures. It does not deserve an article concerning a list of figures, many of whom are only present in the game as a sprite on the map, which incidentally is the same for all other leaders that share the same unit type. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 06:44, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.