Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of highest U.S. post offices

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 11:36, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of highest U.S. post offices[edit]

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List of highest U.S. post offices (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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WP:OR, fails WP:LISTN, and seems to be incorrect to boot (e.g. the Arastra post office was located higher while it existed) Fram (talk) 15:50, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography, Lists, and United States of America. Fram (talk) 15:50, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 18:28, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Colorado-related deletion discussions. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 18:29, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: This list is neither original research nor a stand-alone list. All information is publicly available at the three sources provided. No United States post offices above 9,000 feet (2,743 m) elevation were opened prior to January 18, 1860. This list is of interest to postal historians. There is absolutely no need to delete this list. Yours aye,  Buaidh  talk e-mail 19:02, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think this is WP:OR either, but it is indeed a WP:Stand-alone list. Mdewman6 (talk) 19:36, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Much of the information contained in this list is cross-referenced in the List of post offices in Colorado, the List of ghost towns in Colorado, and the List of populated places in Colorado. Yours aye,  Buaidh  talk e-mail 19:54, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I don't see any sources establishing why high-elevation post offices are notable as a class or that postal historians are interested; the article synthesizes a cross-reference of when post offices were open with their elevations without coverage of the topic specifically. It's not really that interesting to say that high-elevation towns have high-elevation post offices, etc. Reywas92Talk 19:25, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless further evidence of notability can be included. Right now, the article lists only one reference (a print book) that purports to consider the subject of high-elevation post offices in Colorado or the U.S. in general. I don't think that's enough to pass WP:LISTN muster, as on its face it is a non-encyclopedic cross-categorization. In other words, is there some fundamental reason why post offices at high elevation is a notable topic? Or is it simply on par with List of highest banks in the United States or List of highest courthouses in the United States, where it's not obvious why elevation has a particular connection to the topic. I normally oppose deletion of lists like this for notability reasons alone, or for casting them as mere trivia, and I want to find a way to a "keep", but as it stands this seems too far beyond the bounds of what is reasonable. Moreover, if elevation did have some relationship to post offices, I would think the list should then be organized by elevation rather than chronologically, with the latter being much closer to simply being trivia. Mdewman6 (talk) 19:36, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I realize that is list may seem pointless to folks who who aren't interested in postal history or who don't live in a mountainous region, but the acquisition of a post office was seen by the residents of an early mining camp as conferring legitimacy on the community, and the higher the elevation of the camp the more important was that status. Folks in mountain communities care a great deal about these seemingly trivial facts as revealed in our tourism promotional materials. Yours aye,  Buaidh  talk e-mail 20:29, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I can follow that reasoning, but is there any sourcing to reflect it? See also Wikipedia:Stand-alone_lists#Appropriate_topics_for_lists. Mdewman6 (talk) 21:27, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Something like List of highest towns in the United States or list of highest settlements in the United States, while perhaps more difficult to define, would likely be easier to defend as a stand-alone list topic, and provide similar information, given that most towns have or had post offices. Mdewman6 (talk) 00:29, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is already List of cities in the United States by elevation. Perhaps the solution here is a redirect? Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 17:34, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe, but it looks like regardless that list needs a new title, because it says "cities" when towns and other settlements are listed. We would need to verify that the lists match up, i.e. all of the top towns listed have post offices, and there aren't other populated places with extant post offices that aren't currently listed for some reason. Mdewman6 (talk) 18:02, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Perhaps a quick mention in THE highest post office's article, but it's really trivia at that point. As stated, there is nothing encyclopedic about the elevation of various post offices. I mean, they're all at a certain height above sea level, so why is one more notable than another? Oaktree b (talk) 20:04, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: If this article was modified and moved to List of highest post offices in Colorado, would it make it less objectionable? Just asking,  Buaidh  talk e-mail 20:19, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No, I don't think the issue is the title or the fact that the highest of X in the U.S. happen to all be in Colorado, or whether or not additional entries outside of Colorado should be included, etc. I think the issue is whether post offices at extreme elevations is notable or not, regardless of how the geographical scope is defined. Mdewman6 (talk) 21:27, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete since post offices are inanimate objects and cannot get high as an unencyclopedic cross-categorization. You might as well have a list of western-most barber shop in the US. Also remove autopatrolled right for article creator given how bad this creation was. Playing games with whether it's a list of the most X Ys, or a list of the most X Y over time is kind of beside the point. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 23:34, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move: I propose moving this article to Timeline of highest towns in the United States List of the highest U.S. town by date and modifying the criteria for inclusion to include incorporated municipalities, census-designated places, and unicorporated communities with a post office. This would substantially increase notability. I'm personally prepared to make whatever changes are required to this article. Thanks,  Buaidh  talk e-mail 13:33, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Based on what sources? Fram (talk) 14:36, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • In that case, no, not a good idea at all, again WP:OR, going through primary sources and creating a new list based on them. Fram (talk) 21:38, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    This is not original research. All information is taken from other Wikipedia articles. The external sources quoted above are merely to check that Wikipedia information is complete. After a review, they are. There are no U.S. towns above 6,998 feet (2,133 m) elevation that were established before January 17, 1860.
    I've requested that this article be moved to the List of the highest U.S. town by date. You may wish to comment. Yours aye,  Buaidh  talk e-mail 00:52, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:SYNTH, an essential part of WP:OR: "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source. " This seems to be exactly what you are doing, both at the initial and at the planned article. Fram (talk) 10:55, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Duplicate !vote struck. Please only !vote once; if you wish to change your !vote, you can strike your old one and unstrike this one. But what you're proposing is a different article, so this isn't really a viable suggestion for this particular discussion anyway. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 03:23, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom and this looks like a trivia. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 11:28, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This list is not trivial to those interested in the development of mining camps in the American West. This list has been completely revised and should be moved to List of the highest U.S. town by date. Thanks for your comment though.  Buaidh  talk e-mail 13:36, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This list is not of general interest and is only of interest to the those interested in the development of mining camps of the American West. I retract all previous comments.  Buaidh  talk e-mail 14:06, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - A retro-Wikipedia article, with a subject like it's 2005 again. :) Doesn't look to pass WP:NLIST, sadly. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 15:22, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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