Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of free-kick goals by Lionel Messi in official matches

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Closing a few minutes early per WP:SNOW. Randykitty (talk) 23:08, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of free-kick goals by Lionel Messi in official matches

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I'm happy to be proved wrong here but I don't think scoring from a free-kick is as notable as scoring a senior international goal. Transfermarkt does list these goals but very few, if any, other sources do. Similar to this list and other AfDs relating to individual footballer achievements. He certainly scored a lot but he trails Juninho Pernambucano and many others according to sources so he hasn't broken a record here. The list itself violates WP:INDISCRIMINATE and the topic does not have enough coverage for WP:GNG or WP:NLIST. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:31, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football, Lists, and Argentina. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:31, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:34, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Total statscruft and justified since the list of goals article has already been deleted. Ajf773 (talk) 23:47, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lionel Messi's list of goals for Argentina is considered a great article. This free-kick goals article is an inspiration from List of international goals scored by Lionel Messi. None of the articles detail a world record, as the record holder of goals for the national team is Cristiano Ronaldo. However, no active player in world football has scored more free-kicks than Lionel Messi, who was just named the best player in the world a few hours ago. THIAGOW13 (talk) 00:09, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Out of the sources that you've cited, only Transfermarkt actually confirms the contents of this article. Per WP:TRANSFERMARKT, we reject that as a source. Therefore, there are no reliable sources supporting this article. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 08:34, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The second source also confirms with much more precision all the cited data. It's a very accurate count with all dates recorded. THIAGOW13 (talk) 11:16, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NOTSTATS and points made above. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:22, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOTSTATS. We really don't need lists of all goals scored by a player via a specific method, which would inevitable open the floodgates to lists of all goals from penalties, headers, etc etc by specific players, all of which would just be trivia -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:56, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as WP:NOTSTATS strong applies. --Mvqr (talk) 12:04, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

About WP:NOTSTATS: The statistics are on tables and are less excessive than other articles like the List of international goals scored by Lionel Messi which account for 98 goals for the national team, instead of 61 official free-kicks. It should be a recommendation to add more explanations to the article to improve it. Another good point not to delete the article, would be that Messi, the player with the most free-kick goals currently, can possibly pass Juninho Pernanbucano with 77 free-kick goals, which would be, in addition to a current record, a historical record. THIAGOW13 (talk) 12:24, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If he goes on to break Juninho's record then a sentence can be added to Lionel Messi. There is no need to create an article listing all goals that led to that record. It's WP:CRYSTAL anyway to presume that he will break the record. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:57, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Currently already a record. We are talking about another record. This article has nothing to do with WP:CRYSTAL or WP:NOTSTATS THIAGOW13 (talk) 13:00, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What's wrong with just mentioning that he scored 61 goals direct from a free-kick at Lionel Messi? We don't need an entire article just to state this statistic. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 13:16, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Many people look up stats on Wikipedia for context. It is not only necessary to just state the total, it is necessary to give context. It's a flawed part of my article, we can detail several important goals by Leo Messi, like his goal against the USA that made him overcome Batistuta, Or his career goal number 600, against Liverpool in the UCL semi final. Free-kicks are a hallmark of Messi THIAGOW13 (talk) 13:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lionel Messi#Player profile is the best place for this, not a separate article and we certainly don't need a list of every single free-kick scored. In the same way, we wouldn't want a list of penalty-kicks either, even though he is very good at taking them. Such stats cruft would be better on a fandom site. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 13:51, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Agree with all of the above. Govvy (talk) 21:49, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:58, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reply Umm, @GiantSnowman: You really need to pick and choose your wording better, notability is not an issue here. It's all about the content and the way it is represented. Messi will always be notable in everything he does. Govvy (talk) 22:40, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
let's have a List of Lionel Messi farts then shall we? Giant Snowman 18:21, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NOTSTATS and way to specific of criteria. Frank Anchor 21:16, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOTSTATS. REDISCOVERBHARAT (talk) 12:45, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per all above. Kante4 (talk) 13:36, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. A good opportunity to point out WP:NOTSTATS. Shawn Teller (talk) 02:57, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Waaaay too specific and lacking in sources that demonstrate any kind of notability of its own. Rkieferbaum (talk) 18:53, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.