Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fan translated games
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. —Cryptic 04:35, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
List of fan translated games[edit]
- List of fan translated games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Not the sort of list we need here at wikipedia. As the article fan translation points out, "fan translations are indisputably illegal". We don't need a list of games that people can search for to steal. Violates WP:C, WP:V, and notability requirements. SeizureDog 03:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per nom. TJ Spyke 04:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per nom as listcruft. YechielMan 04:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per nom. MER-C 04:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been added to the list of CVG deletions. Koweja 05:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete legal issues aside, the list has no place here as fan translations aren't notable (or at least the vast majority of them). Koweja 05:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd just like to point out that seems to be an unintended double negative.--SeizureDog 07:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep and Cite. This is a stupid reason to delete this article. This is just a partial list of links to Wikipedia articles on copyrighted works and with some information on them, which is common in Wikipedia. There are already articles about emulation and ROMs, which are indisputably illegal. Wikipedia already has lists of old video games, which SeizureDog believes are lists of games that people can search for to steal. If the vast majority of the fan translations are not notable, then the vast majority of the games in the list are what many are unlikely to steal. Deleting this article will do you no good against piracy. Deleting this is like deleting other game lists. Fan translations are distributed with only the translated data and the directives for where it is to be placed in the original copyright material, without the original copyrighted material itself. Even though "fan translations are indisputablly illegal", the article fan translation also points out "it is unusually for copyright holders to object." For verifiability, I suggest you use Romhacking.net to cite whether the game is fan translated. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 08:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- "Fan translations are distributed with only the translated data and the directives for where it is to be placed in the original copyright material, without the original copyrighted material itself."
So you take the illegal translation patch and put it into the illegal ROM copy. I hardly see how that's any better. The simple fact is, this list is not useful for anyone who doesn't plan on searching for these patches, who shouldn't be in the first place.--SeizureDog 09:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]- The illegality of the game is accounted for the original ROM itself. There are already lists of games for people to steal. There are already lists of games for discontinued platforms. When they read the article on a game that is no longer commercially exploited, they might steal it. Therefore, deleting this article will do you no good. Copyright holders usually do not object to fan translations, which have been on the Internet a long time. The fan translation community also has an anti-piracy attitude, which may have made copyright holders turn a blind eye. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 09:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not following your logic. A list of games that include stealable games (such as List of Nintendo 64 games) is not the same thing as a list of games you can't play without breaking international copyright laws. The fact that copyright owners turn a blind eye carries no weight on Wikipedia. Anyways, let's forget I used the word "steal". It may not be theft, but this list certainly promotes copyright infringement.--SeizureDog 10:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The illegality of the game is accounted for the original ROM itself. There are already lists of games for people to steal. There are already lists of games for discontinued platforms. When they read the article on a game that is no longer commercially exploited, they might steal it. Therefore, deleting this article will do you no good. Copyright holders usually do not object to fan translations, which have been on the Internet a long time. The fan translation community also has an anti-piracy attitude, which may have made copyright holders turn a blind eye. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 09:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- "Fan translations are distributed with only the translated data and the directives for where it is to be placed in the original copyright material, without the original copyrighted material itself."
- Delete The legal issues are irrelevant (WP:NOT censored applies just as much to this as to pornography, IMO), but notability isn't (WP:NOT a directory, or an indiscriminate collection of information). The article on fan translation is bad enough, but this is a list of (at least mostly) non-notable fan translations of games, which doesn't justify the existence of the list. Confusing Manifestation 09:59, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete- I don't agree with all of SeizureDog's reasons for nominating this article. Firstly, we should not be deleting content simply because people might misuse it. Secondly, even if all the translated games are copyright infringements, that does not make the list itself a copyright infringement. Nevertheless I say delete because in my opinion such a list is unencyclopedic. It's an indiscriminate collection of information and that is NOT what Wikipedia is about. By all means include a small selection of the most relevant fan-translated games in the fan translation article and maybe an external link to a fuller listing, but just because the fan translation phenomenon exists does not mean we need to slavishly record each and every instance of it. Reyk YO! 10:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I object to the deletion. Many of the games on that list are notable or becoming notable. Japan-exclusive computer and video games are historically non-notable in English speaking worlds. There are justifications for this list. I might say that the list should include only fan translations that are notable or becoming notable. An alternative to deletion is to merge with the article fan translation, and include only the notable fan translations. There are also Wikipedia articles on obscure Japan-exclusive computer and video games that have been fan translated. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 10:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not the games that are considered non-notable, it's the fact that they have been fan-translated.--SeizureDog 10:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Like Reyk said, legal issues are irrelevant for deletion from Wikipedia. There are Wikipedia articles on non-notably fan translated games, and the fact that they have been fan translated may be stated in the respective articles. All MSX translations are notable, because they were done before the advent of console emulation. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 10:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not the games that are considered non-notable, it's the fact that they have been fan-translated.--SeizureDog 10:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I object to the deletion. Many of the games on that list are notable or becoming notable. Japan-exclusive computer and video games are historically non-notable in English speaking worlds. There are justifications for this list. I might say that the list should include only fan translations that are notable or becoming notable. An alternative to deletion is to merge with the article fan translation, and include only the notable fan translations. There are also Wikipedia articles on obscure Japan-exclusive computer and video games that have been fan translated. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 10:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Nice list, but wiki isn't the place. -Ryanbomber 12:25, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- There is no good reason to delete from wiki. I had to copy this to my computer. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 18:08, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Note I'm not sure about the notability of the concept, but ROMs and emulators are not "indisputably illegal" provided that you own a copy of the work in question, digital backups are allowed under the DMCA. Also, illegality is not a reason not to have an article, otherwise what would become of otherwise very encyclopedic articles on drugs and the like. 69.210.39.245 23:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- While emulators may be legal, possession (or acquisition) of ROMs may not be, especially when Wikipedia may be covered by non-US law. Describing or listing the fan translations will not cause problems, in the same way that describing drugs won't - however, there will be issues as soon as you provide either. --Sigma 7 00:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Look at the back of any Nintendo game manual: "Copying of any video game for any Nintendo system is illegal.'Back-up' or 'archival' copies are not authorized and not necessary to protect your software. Violators will be prosecuted." Then notice how 80% of this list is for Nintendo games.--SeizureDog 21:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Neutral: Notability is questionable, but the items in the list (at least the initial ones) have been referenced. In addition, information about fan translations can easily be posted on the individual games, thus creating interest for this listing. --Sigma 7 00:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete unencyclopaedic and arbitrary list. Guy (Help!) 16:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. Interesting list, but not encyclopedic. I might be okay if mentions were made in individual game articles. As for the legality, that's not Wikipedia's problem so long as the copyrighted materials themselves aren't available through Wikipedia servers. --Alan Au 06:26, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Instead of Delete or Keep, let us say Merge. I suggest that the list be merged with the article fan translation. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 08:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The list is too long to merge. If anything, it should be turned into a category. Not entirely supportive of that either, but it's the lesser of the evils.--SeizureDog 02:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The fan translation article is short enough to be merged with the list. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 22:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The list is too long to merge. If anything, it should be turned into a category. Not entirely supportive of that either, but it's the lesser of the evils.--SeizureDog 02:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Instead of Delete or Keep, let us say Merge. I suggest that the list be merged with the article fan translation. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 08:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete although not primarily due to illegality but because few if any of these can be verified using reliable independent sources (and no, linking to romhacking.net or other dubious websites does not count as sourcing!) Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- What about link to Web sites of the respective fan translators themselves? I hope that counts as sourcing. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 22:42, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.