Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of events named massacres

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Consensus seems clear here. Black Kite (talk) 10:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of events named massacres[edit]

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Fails WP:LISTN; the topic "events named massacres" has not been discussed as a group by reliable sources. It also a violation of WP:INDISCRIMINATE; lists based on a shared term lack context and scope.

Further, lists of massacres in general produce WP:NPOV issues; the term "massacre" is extremely subjective, and there can be reasonable disagreements about what is and isn't a massacre - lists like these can't provide the necessary context to the use of the term to avoid NPOV violations. BilledMammal (talk) 09:49, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. BilledMammal (talk) 09:49, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, History, and Military. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:45, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:48, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and I would encourage all voters to read the very long discussion in Talk:List_of_events_named_massacres/Archive_10. I broadly disagree with the arguments presented by the nominator there - the fact that some historical events are disputed is reason to form consensus on those articles and then bring that consensus to the aggregate list. There was also a long discussion to rename the article to what it is now from "List of massacres". The discussion is here but it was over 15 years ago and consensus has moved significantly regarding list articles. I would actually support moving this back to List of massacres and amending the inclusion criteria to be based on the naming used in the included article, but there's well over a dozen pages of argumentation about that point so I'll just plant the flag here. Regardless of problems with this article, it seems pretty obvious it shouldn't be deleted. BrigadierG (talk) 12:31, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The last go round, a while ago, the inclusion criteria were tightened up so as to require multiple RS naming an event as a massacre, which seems plausible enough, but it is hard to see what useful purpose such an unwieldy list serves, especially given the politicization/sloganeering of words and phrases like genocide, war crime and massacre.Selfstudier (talk) 13:09, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The list serves the purpose of WP:LISTPURP-NAV. This is also why the inclusion criteria also relies on independently notable examples only.BrigadierG (talk) 13:38, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I see one massacre had two people killed, and another had one million killed. Category:Lists of massacres by country has 98 entries. Listing everything together despite it being from different countries, time periods, and situations, seems arbitrary. Dream Focus 19:27, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Massacre is an extremely contentious term, and the list will always be incomplete and full of discussions. It's best to delete the list and leave it to country-related lists. Jebiguess (talk) 03:49, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There is nothing encyclopedic about it. Lorstaking (talk) 05:43, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The term "massacre" may be controversial, but the page does not say that these events are massacres, simply that they have been called massacres. Maximajorian Viridio (talk) 00:15, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:32, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Or add Alice's Restaurant Massacree if you accept that any article containing he word massacre belongs here. Or if you accept that any horrid battle is a massacre, then Battle of the Little Bighorn certainly qualifies. Battle of the Alamo was one of the most famous massacres in American history, but not labeled by that word. Goliad massacre should be here. The American Civil War was an ongoing massacre that lasted four years. This list is too broad. — Maile (talk) 22:39, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:LISTN. In addition it is incomplete and contains various events that are debatable. Mztourist (talk) 05:30, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Even if the term "massacre" is not perfectly defined, this does not mean that the page should be removed. There are other similar cases, which are clearly of value such as List of deadliest floods and one could argue similarly, what makes a flood deadliest? GidiD (talk) 12:01, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Number of people dead? The criteria for that list seems very objective. BilledMammal (talk) 12:33, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A universal and objective criterion for the number of deaths is given, but the relevant definition of a flood is not given at all. I see several items in that list for which most of the deaths were due to mudslides. Four avalanches are mentioned. There are several dam failures and storm surges, both of which can involve a lot of water, but aren't necessarily what the average person thinks about when they're talking about floods. Ask yourself, e.g., whether Great Molasses Flood would properly belong on the list if three times as many people had died. I think that reasonable people could come to different conclusions about that. The List of deadliest floods is, therefore, no more objective than the List of events named massacres. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:04, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The criterion is such that the list would have to include non-lethal events like the Saturday Night Massacre. More importantly, there is already List of lists of massacres by country, which makes this one pretty redundant. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:50, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete so many die everyday of murder or killing listing only some here will violate POV बिनोद थारू (talk) 00:36, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why is this a list and not a list of lists? (or list of list of lists) Alpha3031 (t • c) 01:47, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.