Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of current NHL assistant coaches

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz ^Humbug! 08:14, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

List of current NHL assistant coaches[edit]

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Appears to fail WP:GNG via WP:LISTN. Assistant coaches do not seem to generate coverage in terms of discussing the subject as a group or set by independent reliable sources. Each individually may meet GNG, but this is a bit of an of WP:INDISCRIMINATE list created via original research. A merger was proposed in December 2017 to include as part of List of current NHL head coaches (and changing the name of that article to List of current NHL coaches), but may have been prematurely closed after very little participation. Nominating based on above concerns as I do not believe it passes the requirement for a stand-alone article in terms of WP:N, even if the content itself is easily verifiable. Seems like the info is better contained on team pages (where assistants actually have an impact, or a section talking about coaches in general (as in the proposed merger). Yosemiter (talk) 18:43, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - into List of current NHL head coaches. Doesn't warrant an article of it's own (fails WP:GNG as a single article) but it could be included as a subsection to the aforementioned list. --Kirbanzo (talk) 19:13, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Page is also lacking sources, so I am adding a "lacks citations" template. --Kirbanzo (talk) 19:15, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:32, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:32, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Update: A user has since merged the article as originally proposed, which I guess is their vote. I have moved the merged page to List of current NHL coaches to be more inclusive with the new content. If no one else has anything to say, this AfD can be closed as a Merge. Yosemiter (talk) 02:14, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nomination. In addition, I oppose for the information to be merged into the List of current NHL head coaches, which was already done as there are no sources and assistant coaches are irrelevant and tend to change frequently, which will most likely not be updated. Furthermore, that page should be moved back to its original namespace. – Sabbatino (talk) 15:15, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- That's fair, I do think @AaronWikia: should have waited on the conclusion of this AfD prior to merging. If there is further consensus against its inclusion on that page, it should certainly be moved back with "List of current NHL coaches" kept as a redirect as a logical search term. Yosemiter (talk) 17:57, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - I restored the page about which AfD was created and removed the content related to assistant coaches from List of current NHL coaches until this is closed. – Sabbatino (talk) 18:23, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, as mentioned, public coverage of NHL assistant coaches, tends to be very low. GoodDay (talk) 19:16, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge (or Keep): I have worked in professional hockey at the NHL and AHL levels for 48 years and understand very well how essential and valuable the rôle of associate and assistant coaches has become, even at the AHL and lower levels. With the changes in technology and other factors, the modern pro game could not be played effectively without them. Being able to find all of these key NHL coaching staff personnel listed in one place (preferably in the same place as the head coaches) is valuable and useful to persons with a serious interest in the NHL. Centpacrr (talk) 07:18, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Centpacrr: I absolutely agree assistants are important to a team (where they are, or should, already be listed). But for wikipedia notability, that is a WP:ITSIMPORTANT argument for keeping this list as a stand-alone article. Also per WP:NOTEVERYTHING, just because something might be viewed as useful does not make it notable, hence my referral to WP:LISTN which poses to question of significant coverage of assistants as a group, not just individually (which is what they usually get coverage for during hiring/firing season of head coaches). Yosemiter (talk) 13:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is important information to NHL fans. No where else on Wikipedia is this info available.Vincelord (talk) 15:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Vincelord: as stated above, "it's important", is not a valid argument for AfD. Please describe how the list meets WP:GNG with in-depth, independent coverage of current assistant coaches as a whole. Could meet an inclusive standard for NHL coaches in general as head coaches generate tons of coverage as a group, but very little coverage for assistants as a separate subset (usually only discussed when speculating about which assistants are up for a head coaching position). Yosemiter (talk) 15:40, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - I think this topic makes sense within the context of NHL coaches. I certainly cannot agree that assistant coaches are "irrelevant." They get discussed in the team media guides and at least in the New York area they get attention from the newspapers when something goes wrong (or ocasionally right) within their area or responsibility and they receive attention from newspaper speculation on whether they will be fired or who will be hired to fill an opening. Rlendog (talk) 21:52, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

ADDITIONAL NOTE Anyone who has worked in the NHL (as I have for almost half a century) knows how important associate and assistant coaches have become in the last forty years to the operation of professional hockey teams at the NHL and many other levels of the game such as minor league, college and junior hockey. All one has to do is watch a practice, game day skate, team meeting or coaches planning session to see how much critical work they do, including countless hours of teaching and individual coaching both on and OFF the ice. No NHL team could possibly operate successfully today without associate and assistant coaches which makes listing them on Wikipedaia every bit as both "important" AND "notable" as head coaches. Centpacrr (talk) 23:46, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In terms of "importance", team doctors and equipment managers are also incredibly important to team operations. That also does not mean they should get a listcufty-list about grouping them all together on their own page. The most coverage assistants get as a collective (not individually, many individual assistant coaches DO meet WP:N/GNG on their own, we are solely talking about a this article as a stand-alone list), is when articles are actually talking about head coaches, or specifically a recent or soon to be vacant, positions. Some groups of assistant coaches get collective coverage, but it will be in articles that focus on teams, such as articles that focus on New York Rangers' coaches for the 2016–17 season, LA Kings coaching staff, etc. This stands out as list that will go out of date (see WP:DATED and the use of the word "current" in the title) if it is on its own and near orphaned. Yosemiter (talk) 16:02, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Unless an actual persuasive GNG argument is brought to the table. My family doctor is vastly more important than any of these coaches, does not make her notable, and that is what this discussion is supposed to be about. This is not supposed to be a soapbox for the value of individual professions. Detailing of assistants belongs on the individual team pages in my opinion, otherwise won't there be an argument for lists of the people who make the ice, or drive the zambonis or whatever other invaluable profession is tied to the teams? Maybe those already exist, I don't know.18abruce (talk) 14:56, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.