Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of county routes in Nassau County, New York (C76–C99)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to List of county routes in Nassau County, New York. While there is consensus against retaining these pages, there is no clear consensus to redirect without the history, therefore I have not deleted prior to redirect. Star Mississippi 15:10, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of county routes in Nassau County, New York (C76–C99)[edit]

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A partial list of non notable roads as a subset of a non-notable topic (county routes in Nassau County). These are already listed in List of county routes in Nassau County, New York, having subpages detailing the exact route of the 140 metre long C77 and so on is rather excessive. Fram (talk) 11:39, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation, Lists, and New York. Fram (talk) 11:39, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
● Keep - This is well written & well sourced. 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 15:55, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you like trivia and maps and databases as sources. Something like "CR C84 begins at an intersection with Morton Avenue (CR D61) and Fifth Avenue (CR C77).[3] From there, CR C84 continues north-northeast for 0.05 miles (0.080 km), until it reaches a curve in the road; this marks the northern terminus of the CR C84 designation, with Front Street continuing north from this location as CR C85." describing 80 metres of completely unremarkable road, is not "well written", it is filler, rewriting minute map details into words. Wikipedia should not be the most ever written about a subject, but a summary of other texts (as in, actual text, not maps and databases). Fram (talk) 16:22, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

● Keep - The articles meet the criteria and guidelines set forth in the relevant WikiProject. It is a new article and is still a work-in-progress. This list of major roadways is a subset of a topic which IS notable - and this list, as aforesaid, is fully compliant with the appropriate WP guidelines and it is both appropriate and imperative to keep it. There is zero basis for a deletion. Furthermore, Wikipedia is WP:NOTPAPER. There is no harm in having these (appropriate) articles which are completely compliant with the project standards – in fact, these articles improve the parent, just as is encouraged by the actual WikiProject. Infrastorian (talk) 18:10, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikiproject specific criteria and "guidelines" are often at odds with generally accepted policies and actual guidelines, and Wikiproject Roads is notorious for the lax rules they try to apply (there is a reason Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Notability is an essay and not an actual guideline). The relevant guidelines are WP:N and WP:LISTN, the relevant policy is WP:NOTEVERYTHING. If no one has actually written about the details of road C84, then we shouldn't describe this either, not in a separate article, not in a list, not in a sublist. And if such detail is omitted, the main list is more than sufficient. Fram (talk) 18:31, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are independent, reliable sources written about Front Street and the other streets by people. And, even so, just because some routes are short or don't have as many sources as others does not mean that an entire list is not notable (as is implied by the very policies and guidelines which you have referenced). And again: the topic (County Routes in Nassau County) is notable – and these articles do in fact comply with the guidelines and policies (there is nothing in them which warrants the deletions). There is no guideline or policy which suggests that these articles are appropriate candidates for deletion. Infrastorian (talk) 00:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"There are independent, reliable sources written about Front Street [...] by people." Perhaps, but these aren't in the article or in the AfD, making this a so far empty claim. And if these sources (supposing they exist and go beyond routine coverage) can't be bothered to call it county road C77, then it hardly helps your case either.For a list topic to not only get an overview list (which isn't up for deletion) but a large number of detailed sublists as well, you should be able to easily show that the list topic, the group, has received considerable attention in reliable, independent sources, i.e. that the group is a separate topic deemed worthy of attention by sources outside government basically. Fram (talk) 08:41, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete/redirect all - Maybe you're right. I honestly was not thinking from your perspective originally, for which I apologize. But the more and more I think about it, maybe the standalone lists are not the best way to go and maybe are not as notable as I had originally thought. While some roads definitely are notable – including many of the longer routes (with abundant reliable, independent sources available; many of which I never placed), some others are not (even though there are sources which do talk about them, as you said, it is not nearly enough to warrant the list; again, I was not thinking in that manner until you brought up that point – and once again, I apologize for that). Therefore, I agree with the consensus, and say delete/redirect all five nominees to the parent list.

Again, I apologize for not originally seeing what you were saying. While I religiously refer to WP:N, WP:NOTEVERYTHING, and all that other good stuff when editing, creating list articles is not an area which I am awfully familiar with (in my many years of editing, I think these are the only five list articles I have ever created), so I decided to be bold.

Thank you for helping me better understand all this – I genuinely appreciate it, and I know that your explanations will greatly assist me going forward!

–Infrastorian (talk) 20:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also nominated, for the same reason, are:

Fram (talk) 11:42, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete/redirect all To List of county routes in Nassau County, New York. The citations could be moved to the main article, but for non-notable local roads, it's unencyclopedic to just put what anyone can read on a map (a list of intersections) into words. These have very few substantive sources written by people so I don't see how WP:N is met. Reywas92^Talk 19:08, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: A number of the routes written in these lists seem pretty non-notable (some less then or barely more than a quarter mile long or only cover a few city blocks at most; one route I found in one of these lists was said to be only 0.04 miles long, some others were only ~0.05 miles long, etc.). Obviously the length of a roadway in itself doesn't determine notability, but many of these extremally short non-arterial roadways that have rather insignificant lengths probably aren't notable for a standalone list. Streetlampguy301 (talk) 19:35, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all for pretty much the reasons Fram gave. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 16:14, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all, per INDISCRIMINATE and LISTN. WikiProject criteria carry zero weight in notability discussions.

JoelleJay (talk) 19:53, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - WP:NLIST states:

”Because the group or set is notable, the individual items in the list do not need to be independently notable…”

WP:STANDALONE requires individual items be properly cited.

—A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 05:04, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And...? We are not even dealing with the existing list about the whole group, just with lists with extra details about random subgroups. If you are going to single out the Afds I started for comments, then at least try to make helpful comments, not just snippets of guidelunes without indication or thought to how they apply here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fram (talk • contribs) 08:29, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The point A. B. is making is that since county routes are notable, the items mentioned in the list do not need to be independently notable. 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 14:55, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete All: None of these meet the WP:NLIST. Let'srun (talk) 22:04, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.