Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of comic book characters that have returned from the dead

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Comic book death. Some of the keep votes (primarily Orlady's), seemed to focus on this being a "notable" concept. However, as some editors later pointed out, there is already a page for the concept itself at comic book death. Other keep arguments were of the WP:ITSUSEFUL type, or just contained flat-out personal attacks. With that said, if someone wants to merge the list into the other article, everything is still right there in the article's history, although I would recommend talk page discussion first to determine the most appropriate way of doing that. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 06:47, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

List of comic book characters that have returned from the dead

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Consensus was pretty much reached at WikiProject Comics, but I thought it would be best to list it here. The page has already been userfied at User:Marcus Brute/List of comic book characters that have returned from the dead by the author. Jujutacular ^T · C 23:25, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This list would include practically every superhero comic book character ever, considering the several times all life on Earth has been destroyed and somehow restored. Sharksaredangerous (talk) 00:15, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:06, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but the title should be "died and been resurrected", to complement the existing List of dead comic book characters the existing title, an article which nobody seemed to object to. The list is long enough that there's reason to keep them separate. Fortunately, wikiprojects cannot delete articles. That it might contain a great many entries is not reason for deletion--it would still be appropriate to have a page that --as this one does--includes the specific issue and the circumstances. Helpful summary list--and certainly it's sourced by giving the specific location in the series, , as the work itself is a suitable source for such obvious plot specifics. DGG ( talk ) 01:12, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:14, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The phenomenon of comic book death and resurrection is certainly notable, and the details provided in this list give it value as an information resource. As DGG points out, the fact that a list is long is not a valid reason to delete that list. I've added a couple of sources to the article to support notability. --Orlady (talk) 04:52, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete whenever a continuity is rebooted, characters are resurrected. 76.66.197.17 (talk) 07:26, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Comic book death. This list has hardly got started yet. There are issues of scope which might cause trouble - Sherlock Holmes and Buffy have both returned from the dead and appear in comics but is this what readers expect here? It seems best to confine this list to some outstanding examples which is best done as part of the main article. Colonel Warden (talk) 11:09, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The list is long enough to justify its existence without merging, and is notable enough for people who follow comic book culture. Change the page name for something more apt, such as List of dead and resurrected comic book characters, See DGG"s comment above. --Kudpung (talk) 15:26, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The list has no value whatsoever. ALL Marvel and DC characters have died and come back from the dead. All of them. Doczilla _STOMP! 20:19, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep a lot of nerds read this stuff, wikipedia needs the nerds, we cant have them protesting, well be ruined if we make them unhappy. 72.150.245.144 (talk) 12:57, 17 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
delete - Comic book death and resurrection is neither novel nor notable in comics (or other similar genres), but a standard storytelling device. The article reflects the use of death as an arbitrary story telling device (evidenced by the "faked death," "retconned," "Revealed to have survived/imprisoned" none of which would point to a character dying). The failing is that the article is written in such an 'in-universe' fashion that any commentary on such thematic devices is lost. The article then serves as a hodge-podge of plot synopses that could sooner and more effectively be found in the individual article pages, with no information or content being lost. -Sharp962 (talk) 14:41, 17 January 2010 (UTC).[reply]
Delete - per the discussion back on WT:COMICS. The page also fails WP:!. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:53, 17 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On what basis do you think this fails WP:What Wikipedia is not? --Orlady (talk) 18:36, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Uh, by reading the content section of that policy? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:26, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are a lot of specific "not"s there. Which one(s) are you applying to this article? It's pretty easy to guess that you aren't referring to "not a dictionary" or "not a soapbox" (to name to), but it's not obvious what provision(s) you are referring to. --Orlady (talk) 23:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Try WP:NOTDIRECTORY: "Wikipedia articles are not: Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics." Sharksaredangerous (talk) 17:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - this is a legitimate topic worthy of an article and that article is comic book death. As has been said virtually every comic book character can be considered to have "died" so such a list would just be a list of every comic book character, at least in the Big Two (where their universes have been destroyed and rebuilt). I know we have a list of dead comic book characters but I also think that should be deleted too. One point to keep in mind - these are fictional characters and so actually defining whether they are actually alive or dead at any one point is a bit of a moot subject (possibly one better suited for fan speculation or some beard-stroking philosophers with time on their hands) - given that they don't technically ever have to go through the act of "dying" to be dead (they can be retconned as having died 'off panel' at a writers whim - "where has Rocket Lad got too?" "Oh I heard he died in the Ultimate Crisis of 2010 fighting Muck Man"). So the fact that characters can be shown to die in a comic book and that seems to be no impediment to their returning is noteworthy (and already covered), lists of who is dead or have returned to life is not just bordering on the trivial, listcruft, original research and probably some other things too but it is almost impossible to define and come up with clear inclusion criteria (as they were never alive in the first place), in addition to this being a vast and pointless task. It might be worth transwiking to the Comics Wikia and seeing what they want to do with it. (Emperor (talk) 05:34, 18 January 2010 (UTC))[reply]
- In fact being fictional characters who aren't actually alive, the main consideration is whether you are an active or inactive character and being dead has little bearing on this (as it would in the real world). So live characters can travel to some form of Hell and interact with characters who have died (probably most recently seen in Incredible Hercules) and dead characters can remain dead but be active within the main fictional universe as ghosts but most obviously as zombies (recently seen in Marvel Zombies, Blackest Night and Necrosha). All this before we consider that changes in a fictional universe may result in "living" and "dead" characters who were never born but can still be active characters (as we saw in Morrison's Animal Man when he played on the Crisis on Infinite Earths by having the main character meet those "lost" and now effectively dead characters) or that forgotten and unused characters, who are effectively dead can still, confusingly, be active characters (in a few recent Grant Morrison stories, Final Crisis and... Seven Soldiers/52? the main characters discover these lost characters in Limbo). So whether they are "dead" or have been "dead" and returned to "life" is actually irrelevant as it has no bearing whatsoever on whether they are an active character in a story, even before we consider the philosophical angles of how they can truly be defined as being alive or dead. The only way you can deal with this is in an out-of-universe overview of the situation, it is not desirable, wise or possible to produce definitive lists of who is or isn't "dead" even within a purely fictional perspective (and such in-universe writing and articles are not encouraged, see WP:WAF). (Emperor (talk) 17:37, 18 January 2010 (UTC))[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.