Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of automobile marques

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Nobody suggests deletion. No consensus as regards keep, merge or redirect, but that is an editorial discussion that should (continue to) take place on the article talk page. Sandstein 00:37, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

List of automobile marques

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Duplicate of List of automobile manufacturers. It's not a new article, so it can't be speedied, and I don't feel comfortable with a bold redirect, but this is a lower-quality duplicate of what is also a low-quality article. Lukeno94 (talk) 19:59, 18 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep A "marque" and a "manufacturer" are not the same. A "marque" is a brand of car (e.g. Chevrolet). A "manufacturer" is who makes the car (in this case, General Motors). - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 22:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Chevrolet make cars, General Motors don't, generally - they are an owner, not a manufacturer per-se. At any rate, there is a severe level of duplication, and this list could be at most a redirect. Lukeno94 (talk) 08:53, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you read the articles as they make this distinction clear. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 11:44, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I had anyway, I still see this as an unnecessary content fork: having one high-quality list, in place of these two low-quality lists that serve basically the same role, would be much, much better. Lukeno94 (talk) 22:01, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The two lists cover different topics and cannot be replaced by one. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 23:38, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Per Presidentman's explanation, this is a useful distinct list (though the article should make this point clearer). הסרפד (Hasirpad) [formerly Ratz...bo] 04:13, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
At the moment, I'm not seeing how such a distinction is made in this list. While a distinction seems to exist based on the definitions provided by Presidentman above, that the article currently links to various articles of the "automobile manufacturers of X" ilk dilutes that argument. --Kinu ^t/_c 23:42, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:14, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:14, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly my point - I'm well aware there is a subtle difference, but the current setup renders two articles pointless, and I really don't see a need for two lists even without the presence of "national list of automobile manufacturers" type things. Lukeno94 (talk) 10:14, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of automobile manufacturers. "Marque", "Make" and "Manufacturer" are all the same thing in common useage. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 16:36, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 01:45, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redicrect, as per The Bushranger. As an aside, "tries to show every automobile marque" seems like a futile aim. For example, if I built a single car in my shed, put a "1292simon Motors" badge on the front, then sold it to a relative, the "marque" would be eligible to be listed here. Which seems a bit silly. 1292simon (talk) 02:54, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Isn't that what notability and verifiability criteria are here for: to filter out "1292simon Motors", and keep the important ones? הסרפד (Hasirpad) [formerly Ratz...bo] 23:34, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Then it's an incomplete list and thus a disservice to the readers.... - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:47, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, it's messy and needs to be tidied up but it shouldn't be deleted. It is/should be a distinct list from auto manufacturers.SimonX (talk)
- Why? - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:47, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Passes WP:LISTPURP as a functional navigational aid for Wikipedia articles about models of automobiles. (A motor vehicle marque is synonymous with model, whereas manufacturers are the makes of motor vehicles). Furthermore, after a few spot checks, this article is certainly not a verbatim duplicate of the List of automobile manufacturers article, although there may be some overlap. Just compare the two. Northamerica1000^(talk) 01:55, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "Marque" is not the model, it's the manufacturer. "Chevrolet" is a marque; "Chevette" is not. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:47, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment - Check out the Merriam-Webster dictionary's definition of Marque here (scroll down). It is defined as "a brand or make of a product (as a sports car.)" However, Oxford dictionaries (see [1]) defines the word as "a make of car, as distinct from a specific model." It may be that there are slightly different definitions per country, as (if I'm not mistaken), Merriam-Webster originated in the U.S. while Oxford English Dictionary originated in Great Britain. Northamerica1000^(talk) 03:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Well, those both read to me as being the same, actually? - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 04:05, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment - A simple solution may be to simply rename the article to List of automobile brands. Wikipedia has a category titled Category:Vehicles by brand, so this may be a functional solution. Northamerica1000^(talk) 03:39, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - That could work, although I'm not sure "brand" is used in this context, at least with any degree of regularity, very often at all... - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 04:05, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - I don't mean to sound offensive, but the terms marque, manufacturer and brand are just trainspotter semantics IHMO. I believe there is no clear distinction in common usage. Therefore could someone please explain why they think separate articles are needed? (especially considering the "overlap" criteria in WP:merge) Cheers, 1292simon (talk) 07:54, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of automobile manufacturers even to the extent that a marque and a manufacturer are different in this context they are still better covered by a single list. Eluchil404 (talk) 21:16, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.