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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Eddie891 Talk Work 19:52, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of United States flash flood emergencies[edit]

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List of United States flash flood emergencies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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A list of twitter posts, with a few other primary sources thrown in. The floods may be notable in some cases, but the "flash flood emergencies" aren't. Fram (talk) 08:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Lists, and United States of America. Fram (talk) 08:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Most of these extreme weather events or "emergencies" are not notable themselves, and certainly not for a list as a whole. Fails WP:LISTN. Ajf773 (talk) 09:15, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep — Duplicate to tornado emergency. The alert itself doesn’t actually exist, yet it used and gathers much media attention as well as meteorological attention. If you see Flash flood warning#Emergency, notice that the actual warning is a “Flash Flood Warning”, not “Flash Flood Emergency”. Look at tornado emergency’s warning box (visible in the article). It is a “Tornado warning”, not “Tornado emergency”. Both of the emergencies are not actual products of the National Weather Service, and are just the wording form them. That said, Google “Flash Flood Emergency” or “Tornado Emergency” and you will literally see thousands of articles mention those terminologies. I can 100% tell you, if these do not pass WP:LISTN, then like half the lists on Wikipedia cannot pass list notability. Both a TOR-E and FFE are the most extreme warning types used in the world, and each time one is used, it gathers media attention.
On a 100% other side note, the nominator appears to claim the National Weather Service’s twitter accounts aren’t primary sources. I plan to spam links (not breaking WP:REFSPAM) to help show notability. Get ready for hundreds of refs. :D Elijahandskip (talk) 16:19, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The flash floods are noteworthy, the warnings though (as a general topicn yes, but as a list)? Never mind the hourly updates to them (e.g. your 8 entries for 28 July, Kentucky, some of then just minutes apart). And I don't claim that the Twitter account isn't a primary source, I claim it is a primary source, as they are the ones issuing the warnings. Fram (talk) 16:32, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I was honestly planning to ask for formatting help for the list. The way it is now for sure isn’t the best way to format it. So, you or other editors are more than welcome to reformat it into a better method. That said, this would be a notable list of unofficial (and official in it’s weird way), yet attention gathering, emergencies that are issued only in the worst of the worst (basically THE notable) situations. Again, if these lists don’t pass the notability requirements for lists, then half the lists on Wikipedia don’t either. I will note, this should be seen as the topic as a whole as the list is incomplete. Elijahandskip (talk) 16:39, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why would you want a list of the emergencies issued by the NSW, instead of, say, a list of the actual floods? The emergencies are a symptom, the floods are the real issue. According to our article (and what I can see elsewhere), these emergencies aren't even issued consistently across the US, but by some local NSW offices only. So you have a list of some warnings for some (potential) US floods, that's it. Fram (talk) 16:46, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Category:2022 floods in the United States exists. Most of them are part of other events like Hurricane Ian, Hurricane Fiona, July–August 2022 United States floods, Tornadoes of 2022#May 4–6 (Central and Eastern United States) (That one doesn’t mention it, but it occurred as a result of the tornado outbreak system). A list of the floods that caused Flash Flood Emergencies would be redundant and probably best for a navigation template. What distinguishes those “catastrophic” floods from a general flood though? It is the flash flood emergency. Generally, any flash flood emergency is going to be catastrophic for whatever community is impacted, hence the emergency being declared in the first place. Elijahandskip (talk) 16:54, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)Even the solo Flash Flood Emergencies (example August 3, 2022 in California) where only a single one was issued for a fairly small population, it gathered media attention (KCRA, Yahoo, KRNV-DT, KOLO-TV). The larger ones (example St. Louis or Kentucky in 2022) have literally hundreds of articles. Both floods were notable enough for July–August 2022 United States floods. Almost any time a “Flash Flood Emergency” or “Tornado Emergency” is issued, it WILL have media attention. For sake of WP:REFSPAM, I was citing the primary sources, but since it appears that people do not see the notability, I have begun doing borderline WP:REFSPAM, citing all these news articles mentioning stuff. No idea why a chart needs to borderline refspam, but I guess it is what it is. Elijahandskip (talk) 16:50, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Events are notable, warnings are not. Plain and simple. Same reason we don't have articles detailing warnings associated with a specific hurricane. NoahTalk 17:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete – Most of these individual warnings didn't result in notable events. It is not Wikipedia's place to document and keep stats on every aspect of the NWS. United States Man (talk) 23:23, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also, a few news articles doesn't establish enough notability for mention on Wikipedia. If that was so, nearly every instance of flooding in the United States would be on here since most events, even minor, will attract some media attention the day of. United States Man (talk) 23:26, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Weather warnings do not guarantee damage, let alone severe. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 03:37, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete list of non-events which strongly veers toward WP:INDISCRIMINATE. —Alalch E. 15:50, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral I'm the one trying to fix up the List of United States tornado emergencies, so I can see why a listing of Flash Flood Emergencies can be useful. However, there are WAY more Flash Flood Emergencies than Tornado Emergencies, so a listing of ALL of them is probably not feasible. Instead, an external link that list them (i.e. IEM's listing of all of them) may be better. I can't lean one way or the other though because my reasoning for the deletion of this list article would conflict with the stance I take for the tornado emergency list I'm currently working to improve. ChessEric 18:53, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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