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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete, default to keep. WP:V does not outright mandate deletion, because most listed media have articles that are (presumedly) sourced. No prejudice to a rewrite, merge, etc.  Sandstein  23:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of The Simpsons media

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List of The Simpsons media (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

I have been thinking of how to save this list a lot, but I have come to the conclusion that it should get deleted per Wikipedia's policies. The list has several problems:
The first is that it is really not a "complete" list of Simpsons media. It is an overview over the seasons combined with a list of Simpsons ads and music videos. Since the seasons are only presented in a overview form, they cannot be considered complete. I don't even think we need a season overview. If people wants to read about the episode, they can go to List of The Simpsons episodes. If they want to read about the short, they can go to The Simpsons shorts. This article is basically an excuse to make a list over ads and if you go through the history of this page you will learn that it was previously called "List of The Simpsons TV ads".
This brings me to the second major problem. The list of Simpsons ads is both incomplete and unsourced. I wouldn't actually mind a list over the Simpsons ads as long as it was sourced by reliable sources, but that is not the case. I have been looking all over the internet. I can't find any reliable sources to cover this. Heck, I can't even find any unreliable sources. I have also looked it up in google books and in newsbank with no result. I have also requested sources at the talk page and at the Simpsons Wikiproject, but with no result. As long as we can't find any reliable sources it has to get deleted per Wikipedia's content policies.
In conclusion, I will recommend a deletion for this incomplete and unsourced list. --Maitch (talk) 10:31, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Transform into ad article While it is interesting to see this list, I'm not really sure how helpful it actually is to know that an ad ran for 30 seconds about "Bart takes Homer's Butterfinger while he's buried under sand.". At the same time I notice we don't haven an article for the Simpsons and ads. Given the extensive use of The Simpsons in advertisement, it might make for a good article. I don't think a full and detailed list would be totally necessary (some examples, yes, but not every tiny detail like "Homer digs a Butterfinger BB.". I don't think we even mention the very large ad campaign with Butterfinger outside of this page. -- Ned Scott 11:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But what are going to do about sources? --Maitch (talk) 11:21, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there are plenty of sources for the Butterfinger ads: [1]. Not sure about the rest. Zagalejo^^^ 18:58, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The first book listed here could be somewhat helpful, although I can't get a fuller preview. Zagalejo^^^ 19:01, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I figured we could find sources for the general information about the ad campaigns, but probably not for each and every specific ad. My position here is kind of odd, since realistically the resulting article would look completely different. I guess we could just delete this page and start from scratch. -- Ned Scott 00:19, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What I meant in my original statement was that there is no way to source this list. I could take a look at ad campaigns later. I think we can make a paragraph out of it. I don't really think it is enough for an entire article. Perhaps it could just get added to the main article. --Maitch (talk) 06:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Just adding to the main article would be fine with me. I guess I'd consider myself neutral on this specific list, for the time being. -- Ned Scott 06:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why don't you try going and asking the people who originally wrote the article how they sourced it? - rst20xx (talk) 13:24, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, this list is very old. It is made by several people and most of them haven't been active on Wikipedia in several years. --Maitch (talk) 13:58, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Stifle (talk) 10:41, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, thank you for commenting. It is true that you can find scholarly sources on the Simpsons and advertising, but you can't find sources that covers what is written in this list. How do you reference stuff like this below?
# First Aired Title Length Description
1 1988 No Teasing 30 seconds Bart teases Lisa about having the last Butterfinger in the house.
People don't publish books which contains summaries of televisision ads. When you can't cite this, what is left then? Nothing, except for the title and the article history. --Maitch (talk) 14:45, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I think we are both reading the same book, but on different pages :-). My keep opinion is based on the believe that the list can be useful and an integral part of an article that pertains to Simpson characters in advertisements. On the one hand, I am in agreement with you, that we should not just have lists to have lists. On the other, I believe that the list can be used to support an interesting piece that is both notable and verifiable. While the list does need some additional cites and references and the whole piece does need a major makeover, I go with the old adage: “…let’s not throw out the baby with the dirty bath water”. ShoesssS Talk 15:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • If the topic has good secondary sources, I don't see a problem with citing primary sources for parts of the article. At a guess, you can find the ad somewhere. That's enough for WP:V in this case. And WP:N is met by the other sources. Hobit (talk) 16:58, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • You make a good point. The list in itself is not notable, but the topic is since it is covered by multiple reliable sources. We don't need sources for the descriptions, but we do need sources for the dates and lengths.
  • Comment: what I'm suggesting we keep is Simpson characters in advertisements and perhaps the music videos as everything else appears to exist elsewhere. It could link to the episodes and shorts lists as needed. Hobit (talk) 17:04, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am now willing to make a page that focuses on advertising with The Simpsons. It could also contain a discussion on the advertising that they are parodying. I'm not too crazy about the title you suggesting. If think the old "List of The Simpsons TV ads" is better, but that is a minor problem, which can be discussed later. I don't think there needs to be a list over the music videos. I have never seen a list like that elsewhere on Wikipedia and the descriptions are pretty bad: "A music video featuring Bart Simpson and other characters from The Simpsons." What is interesting about that list is already covered elsewhere. --Maitch (talk) 10:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's fine too. I just think the overlap with the DVDs/seasons isn't needed. I do think the music videos should go somewhere, but I'm not sure here is the right place. Hobit (talk) 17:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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