Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Scottish counties by area

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. While there is certainly debate about the format, current state, referencing and possibly name of the article (all just requiring cleanup tags and editing) ; the consensus about the subject is to keep - (non-admin closure) Peripitus (Talk) 08:47, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of Scottish counties by area[edit]

This was up for WP:PROD. It was proded for the following reasons: "has been tagged unreferenced for well over a year", "does not give year the data was captured" and "numbers are claimed to be unreliable on talk page". I could have just deleted it, but I didn't feel that it was something that could be removed without a full discusion first. That isn't the sort of thing that can simply be proded, imo, because there are many articles (and lists) for which such problems are true, and to delete them all would be ludicracy. I personally don't have an opinion on this; I present it to you to reach a consensus on what to do next. However, I suspect, unless anyone has some great plan, this will require deletion. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 21:37, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - would require getting editors with an interest together and agreeing on the numbers. Going by the talk page it is not like this is a list of numbers someone has made up themselves, there are valid and acceptable sources being batted about - there are just minor disagreements on some of the exact figures, mostly on very large rural counties where an acre here or there is easily up for debate because it is on the side of a deserted mountain or some such reason. Don't see any reason to delete - as list topics go this one seems far more valid than some of the random junk that passes for lists - Lists of made up star wars characters or List of green smurfs being the type of thing that are often kept. SFC9394 (talk) 22:00, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've never seen a geography article that measures the area of a political subdivision in acres. How bizarre. "Hoot mon, that's a big farm ye have there, Angus". Mandsford (talk) 22:56, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The article lacks a year from when the measurements are taken, like List of counties of England by area in 1831. No sources are given for the data at all. It also excludes counties of cities without explanation. MRSC • Talk 22:59, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- So why not hit the edit button and rewrite as per the talk page, and hit the rename button and rename the article so that it has the appropriate year in its title? You did these two things for List of English historic counties by area. An administrator hitting a delete button isn't required to fix the problems that you are pointing out. Uncle G (talk) 23:36, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Do the counties change size over the years or something? Mandsford (talk) 00:15, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Right, OK, I can tell you that these counties are now mostly historical, and that they have either been renamed, merged or changed their boundaries to become Scottish council areas, which we have a list of at List of Scottish council areas by area. I'll say keep here as geography and history-related lists are far more encyclopedic than fictional fancruft and the like.-h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 04:04, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - we cannot have an article full of statistics without clearly defining what units are being presented, and from which historical time period. What comprised a former 'county' in Scotland changed throughout the relatively brief period when they were used as local government units. And where are the required refs? --Mais oui! (talk) 08:16, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletions. —Mais oui! (talk) 08:18, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Counties of Scotland. --Blanchardb-^{MeMyEarsMyMouth}-timed 10:53, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The equivalent article on England is based on the 1831 census. It was written at the same date and by the same author, so that it is likely to have the same source. Unfortunately, the sources for the English article do not include the Scottish data (as far as I can find), though it is certainly in the original publication. Counties can change in area due to boundary changes. There may also be a probelm of measuring them, as to how much foreshore to include. All that is needed is for some one to discover the source and cite it. No need to delete, certainly not while the equivalent English articel survives. Its counties underwent much greater changes due to the abolition of detached places and otehr boundary changes. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:35, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The Scotland article does not come from the same source. The talk pages reveal it is original research from a variety of publications over a range of years. Furthermore, the England article was amended to be based on the census of 1831. MRSC • Talk 13:42, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The article is unacceptable as it is, but it should not be a huge effort to provide the relevant data for the pre-1975 counties at least. I'll put in a ref as show of good faith. Ben MacDui ^Talk/Walk 14:59, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Eh!? So you have corrected and provided a reference for one of those figures, but not the rest? What year is that for? MRSC • Talk 19:16, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.