Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of OHA Junior A standings
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep per WP:SNOW. (non-administrative closure) — RyanCross (talk) 08:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
List of OHA Junior A standings[edit]
- List of OHA Junior A standings (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
ProD contested because "season articles are notable". However, this is the list of results for a regional, junior league, not a national senior league. While an article on this league is viable, a list of its results fails WP:NOTE and WP:NOT. Fram (talk) 10:03, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep I think it does pass WP:NOTE as results have been covered readily in newspapers. That said, the OHA and related articles are not complete. There is work to do and the current state of things does not make clear the notablity of the league. The OHA itself, while a contributor of national champions in the past, (amateur championships in general are less well-covered in newspapers) is not as relevant as it once was. Champions of this league could readily contest national championships. Much less so nowadays. So we should not compare it's relevance like it used to be. The OHA Junior A is the equivalent of today's Ontario Hockey League of the Canadian Hockey League, so it supports historical information on the topic. So, to sum up, the league was very relevant and notable, dating back to the earliest days of ice hockey, and less so today and the OHA collection of articles needs work, but keep the article. Alaney2k (talk) 19:52, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- But they were a junior league, right? Anyway, results for very local competitions in many sports are often printed in newspapers, without us repeating (or wanting to repeat) these statistics. In our sports coverage, usually only results from (top levels) of senior leagues are given. Fram (talk) 20:30, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The OHA Jr. 'A' was reported, although not in detail, outside of Ontario in newspapers. The level of detail varied; usually just the scores. The Globe and Mail, printed across Canada in several locations, included the Ontario Jr. scores as well as those of the Junior A of the other major leagues at the time. Junior hockey has always been popular in Canada. There is a different Junior A nowadays, the Jr A in the article we are discussing was the top level in Canada (along with Quebec and Western leagues). Junior A nowadays is a lower level. Junior A became 'Major Junior'. It is confusing, partly because the junior hockey ranks was very contested. The Junior A teams until 1966 were sponsored by National Hockey League teams and afterwards the Junior A teams were the ones that received transfer monies from the NHL. So the leagues would fight over that pie with others and try to make their league look like the top. It has become easier to define nowadays; the Canadian Hockey League is clearly the top level. Similarly for the senior ranks; there have been many leagues with various misleading names, e.g. Major League of Hockey. The article we are discussing is clearly within the top amateur level at the time, WP:ATHLETE although it was junior age. The top level of senior hockey in Canada exists, and existed then, but it is clearly not as good in quality as Juniors in Canada. It died in relevance and funding with the rise of televised sports. Alaney2k (talk) 21:16, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- It is indeed very confusing :-) I'll let some other people comment as well, I am not a specialist in Canadian Hockey so it's hard for me to judge. It seems bizarre that a regional junior level would be (among) the top national level anyway, but stranger things have happened. If a few other people agree that this competition is (or was) indeed a lot more important than a cursory glance would indicate, I'll be happy to withdraw this nomination. Fram (talk) 21:27, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I can vouch for Alaney2k's argument. I can also see your thinking in this matter, as "junior" tends to scream limited notability, but junior hockey in Canada has been huge for decades. Scores and standings, at the very least, of the top leagues are printed in major newspapers across the country, even outside of each league's region. This has been true for decades. I've been researching newspapers from the 1920s for the Calgary Tigers article, and even back then, the progression of many junior leagues, including the OHA, was reported on, particularily as the season wound towards the Memorial Cup playdowns, Canada's national junior championship, for which the OHA competed. Resolute 05:51, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- It is indeed very confusing :-) I'll let some other people comment as well, I am not a specialist in Canadian Hockey so it's hard for me to judge. It seems bizarre that a regional junior level would be (among) the top national level anyway, but stranger things have happened. If a few other people agree that this competition is (or was) indeed a lot more important than a cursory glance would indicate, I'll be happy to withdraw this nomination. Fram (talk) 21:27, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The OHA Jr. 'A' was reported, although not in detail, outside of Ontario in newspapers. The level of detail varied; usually just the scores. The Globe and Mail, printed across Canada in several locations, included the Ontario Jr. scores as well as those of the Junior A of the other major leagues at the time. Junior hockey has always been popular in Canada. There is a different Junior A nowadays, the Jr A in the article we are discussing was the top level in Canada (along with Quebec and Western leagues). Junior A nowadays is a lower level. Junior A became 'Major Junior'. It is confusing, partly because the junior hockey ranks was very contested. The Junior A teams until 1966 were sponsored by National Hockey League teams and afterwards the Junior A teams were the ones that received transfer monies from the NHL. So the leagues would fight over that pie with others and try to make their league look like the top. It has become easier to define nowadays; the Canadian Hockey League is clearly the top level. Similarly for the senior ranks; there have been many leagues with various misleading names, e.g. Major League of Hockey. The article we are discussing is clearly within the top amateur level at the time, WP:ATHLETE although it was junior age. The top level of senior hockey in Canada exists, and existed then, but it is clearly not as good in quality as Juniors in Canada. It died in relevance and funding with the rise of televised sports. Alaney2k (talk) 21:16, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- But they were a junior league, right? Anyway, results for very local competitions in many sports are often printed in newspapers, without us repeating (or wanting to repeat) these statistics. In our sports coverage, usually only results from (top levels) of senior leagues are given. Fram (talk) 20:30, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep The OHA is a notable league, as being the top level of amateur competition. I also not that each season article on List of OHL seasons is notable, as is List of WHL seasons and List of QMJHL seasons. Flibirigit (talk) 05:32, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hockey-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 05:37, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 05:37, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 05:37, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep OHA is notable and a list of its seasons are notable. DMighton (talk) 05:38, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - In previous discussions about other league individual seasons, consensus seemed to point to either delete the individual seasons, or merge into a list article. This article is a listing which would make more since for this type content. I would think that it is reasonable to have one article listing all of the seasons for the league. It is much better than separate articles for individual seasons.-Pparazorback (talk) 05:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep I can understand the nominator's thought process, but this is a complimentary list pertaining to the history of the Ontario Hockey League and its predecessors. It certainly can use more context, but is valid. Resolute 05:51, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep While I understand the noms rational, unfortunately there is a lack of knowledge on the subject which causes confusion. The article could probably be better written but it was one of the highest level leagues in the world at its time. I would also suggest a WP:SNOW but didn't want to close it as such as I am a hockey editor mainly so possibly biased. -Djsasso (talk) 14:34, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Could use some expansion, but it is notable and this one article replaces the need for 41 season articles. – Nurmsook! talk... 20:00, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep — Having one article instead of 40+ is something that I feel should be encouraged with season articles. — Hucz (talk · contribs) 22:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.