Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Myer stores (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Noone sidputes the notability of Myer as a chain in this debate, but the consensus of this discussion is that the article violates WP:NOTDIR Fritzpoll (talk) 08:11, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of Myer stores[edit]

Previous AFD closed as "delete", overturned by DRV discussion, and relisting here. I have an opinion on this one and have entered it below. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:06, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I agree with the people who voted to delete based on WP:NOTDIR, although some more explanation is in order. The article here is a WP:LIST, where none of the individual shops have, or should have, articles. Hence the "development" and "navigation" purpose of the lists are not present. That leaves "information", and in this case I think the type of information here is overdetailed, far beyond what is common for other store chains. Each entry is very short, with no prose added to it. People looking for a particular store do not turn to encyclopedias to find one. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:06, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I think that Myer's flagship store in central Melbourne would easily meet WP:N/WP:ORG and suspect that some of the other stores would as well (eg, the flagship store in central Sydney). Nick-D (talk) 23:34, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - As would those in Perth and Hobart. Orderinchaos 07:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This kind of information belongs on the store's website, not in an encyclopedia. 67.79.157.50 (talk) 15:10, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Actually I am of the view that the first store, in Bendigo, at least should have an article. Myer has been a major institution in Australian life since 1900 when this first store was opened, so this first one at least is important. Then there is the common vernacular expression, "more front than Myers", which refers to the Bourke Street store. Chadstone shopping centre, in the suburbs of Melbourne, likes to style itself as the largest shopping centre in the southern hemisphere. The Myer store there was one of the first built so that makes it important/notable. So there's three to fit a notable criteria in my view. Some of the others, maybe not, but it's hard to distinguish whether one is or is not notable especially when there are links from this list to the relevant shopping centres in nearly all cases.--Perry Middlemiss (talk) 22:56, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is just stuff that should have coverage in the Myer like they do with Walmart etc. Gnan garra 04:21, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep At first glance I was in agreement with the idea of deleting this list, but this is an example of attempting to determine why the list was created in the first place. If you follow the links from this list to, say, Chadstone shopping centre, you can then link to David Jones (Australia's second major department store chain). The main article on David Jones includes a list of that chain's Australian stores. This leads me to the view that this Myer store list probably originated in that chain's main article and was moved to its own page as the list was getting unwieldy. If this list is deleted then it might as well be put back on the main Myer page (to bring it into line with David Jones), which would then lead us to the argument that the Myer page was getting too long again. I'd rather have the list of Myer stores on its own page, and thereby complete the circle of information about that department store, rather than either a) have a very long main article, or b) have this argument again in 12 months' time when it is re-created. --Perry Middlemiss (talk) 22:16, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete An entirely unencyclopedic list of stores. What makes a list of Myer stores more encyclopedic than, say, a list of Coles Supermarkets or McDonalds outlets? Wikipedia is not the White Pages. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 22:36, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Myer stores are major businesses, and when stores are opened or closed this is covered in serious stories in the business sections of major newspapers. While few stores are notable individually, together a list of them meets the relevant inclusion guidelines. Nick-D (talk) 22:41, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. —Bidgee (talk) 22:03, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete Doesn't anyone realize that plenty of discussions, such as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Bloomingdale's locations have almost unanimously resulted in delete, and absolutely no other retail chain article has a store list? Seriously though, I see no purpose in listing stores, as retail outlets open and close all the time. There is almost never a singular source to verify all of the locations in a chain (especially not former locations), so this list fails WP:V entirely. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 23:35, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Why does there need to be a single source? - this isn't a requirement for lists and certainly isn't needed to meet WP:V. It should be possible to easily cite this list from newspaper archives and the like. Nick-D (talk) 23:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment We have a single source, in the form of the BOMA publication. And Myer/David Jones do not "open and close all the time" - it's a big event when they do. Orderinchaos 07:49, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. At the DRV I !voted for this to be re-listed, but that was procedural rather than based on the merits of the article, and I now hope to see this closed as a proper deletion per User:Sjakkalle's well-reasoned points.—S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 23:46, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, with respect to Mattinbgn's comment above, Myer stores are more notable than McDonalds and whatnot if only because they're not everywhere. There must be thousands of McDonalds in Australia, but individual Myer stores are almost always major business concerns that employ more people and have more impact in their communities than a fast food joint or a supermarket. With that said, I wouldn't object to a merge with Myer. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 02:51, 7 March 2009 (UTC).[reply]
Keep, The list can be turned into a well sourced encyclopedic list but just needs some editors willing to clean it up. Per Lankiveil what has said. Myer unlike Harvey Norman, Big W, Target, Kmart ect Myer doesn't have stores in most regional towns and cites and doesn't even have a store in the Northern Territory (Darwin is the only Capital city not to have one) and there is no really address's in the list so I don't really see the white pages argument. Bidgee (talk) 03:15, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails guidelines per WP:NOTDIRECTORY. WWGB (talk) 05:15, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Which of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 are you saying it fails? Orderinchaos 07:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Myer and David Jones are kind of unique in the Australian context and, as others have mentioned, their moving into or out of particular shopping centres is often the topic of much RS coverage. See Greensborough Plaza for an example of the sort of reliable source coverage which does exist out there on these sorts of things, plus the once-every-two-years BOMA/Property Council of Australia publication which is a reliable source and is in state libraries. The same would not go for a discount store, supermarket or whatever. I also point the closing admin to the comments by Thewinchester in the first debate. A merge with Myer would be a poor second choice. Orderinchaos 07:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. At least merge with Myer, but this could easily be turned into a well-sourced article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lonelygirl16 (talk • contribs) 09:00, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per my previous reasons in the first AFD. A list of stores can simply be found on their website. The article in this form serves as pointless duplication which violates WP:NOTDIR. --Arnzy (talk · contribs) 07:27, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Their page does not list historic stores. Orderinchaos 01:28, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - comment and the point is? Also, I personally don't think the average Wikipedia reader would want to know how big a store is in square metres either. My point stands that the article in its current form is pointless duplication with statistics to make it look like myer"cruft". --Arnzy (talk · contribs) 02:41, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Wikipedia is not a directory, and it's advertising to boot. Deb (talk) 19:46, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Could you please explain how this list is advertising? It doesn't seem to violate any of the conditions at WP:NOTADVERTISING. Nick-D (talk) 05:42, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Its sole useful purpose is to tell people where to go if they want to buy something from this store. Deb (talk) 12:56, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not advertising, but it's a clear directory. Secret ^account 22:07, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete sigh! again, as per my rationale of not dir in that discussion delete WP:NOT#DIR a resource for conducting business the list isnt Myre stores, its a list of Shopping Centres in which Myers are a tennant, Myers is nothing different to Walmart, or other Australian retailers Target, Woolworths, Coles, Big W, Kmart, IGA etc all of which are marque tennents that affect the costs of rent. Maybe a conversion to a template is ok, but really the notable stores should be covered in the prose like WalMart the rest is nothing more than conducting business Gnangarra 14:48, 23 February 2009 (UTC)[1] as major retailer Myers is notable there no question of that but they arent any more notable than any other marque tennent in any shopping centre. Gnan garra 04:17, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Wikipedia is not a directory, and we don't have a list of Tesco stores, List of Dunnes Stores stores, etc. Stifle (talk) 09:34, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment There is a list of stores for IKEA (List of IKEA stores) however it doesn't have individual stores but the Myer store list could be changed into the list like the IKEA list but rather having the country it can be state by state. Bidgee (talk) 21:05, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete WP:NOT#DIRECTORY, sorry I remembered similar articles were deleted for the same reasons, and most of these lists were removed from the parent page. Company websites has a list of these stores for a reason. Secret ^account 22:07, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.