Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Middle Eastern superheroes

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 14:06, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

List of Middle Eastern superheroes[edit]

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A search brings up nothing that indicates "Middle Eastern Superheroes" are notable as a topic. The existing references do nothing to justify the existence of the article. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:36, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:36, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:36, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:36, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Even if the topic "Middle Eastern Superheroes" is not notable, the topic "Superheroes" is. If we delete this list, we'd also have to delete all the other regional lists (see Lists of superheroes), and then create a new list of all the superheroes, including all the regions on Earth. I won't be the one to do that job, if somebody else wants to volunteer, fine. --Rsk6400 (talk) 07:06, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. If WP:WAF were applied correctly to this page, it would be about (always fictional) superheroes created in the (real-world) Middle East, or for some reason or another prominent in the culture of (real) Middle Eastern people. None of that appears on the page that is up for deletion here. I was looking for a meaningful place where List of Middle Eastern superheroes could redirect to. It is quite disturbing Wikipedia appears to have relatively little content on culture in the Middle East or on Middle Eastern fiction, but that's the way it is, so the "best", but actually truly unsuitable, redirect target I could find was Orientalism#Pop culture. Articles such as Middle East Film and Comic Con or Culture and Conflict in the Middle East seem to have no coverage on Middle Eastern superheroes, so, apart from being unsuitable as redirect targets, they also seem to illustrate there is little demand for an article on the superhero niche in Middle Eastern culture or fiction. I had a look at incoming links to the list page from mainspace pages: apart from two redirects, there are only five pages that link to it. Among these pages linking to the list, Ethnic stereotypes in comics would, imho, be the most promising as a possible redirect target candidate for the list page (specifically its Ethnic stereotypes in comics#Middle Eastern section), but that page has a {{multiple issues}} tag for over a decade, and its Middle Eastern section is not in list format – so if redirected there, List of Middle Eastern superheroes would be up for deletion at WP:RfD without much delay. So, seeing no suitable well-referenced content on the page, nor seeing a viable redirect target for the title, the only option would be deletion, afaics. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:08, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This non-notable article has caused editors to have to waste time (most recently on WP:FTN) debating which superheroes should be classified as Middle Eastern superheroes. It does not necessarily follow that all regional lists need to be deleted, just the ones for which there's no evidence of notability (although it can be argued that any such topic runs into in-universe problems). Even if all regional lists were deleted, Wikipedia could survive for a few months without a consolidated list of all superheroes until one of the thousands of editors who like working on pop culture topics gets around to making one. During that hypothetical few months when fictional superheroes are inadequately listed, we could defend ourselves against charges that we neglect pop culture by pointing out that Jabba the Hutt gets more coverage than many Nobel prize winners. NightHeron (talk) 10:18, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I started that discussion on WP:FTN, not because of this article, but because of the fringe theory that all Jews may be called "Middle Eastern". Editors promoting that theory also cause problems in other articles, e.g. Middle Eastern Americans. --Rsk6400 (talk) 11:17, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Where's the source for this? Is this some kind of a fan page? Not Wikipedia content but certainly could be some other kind of wiki.Monopoly31121993(2) (talk) 11:40, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - and delete the other “by region” lists as well... primarily because such lists are heavily based on Primary Sources (the comics themselves) and notability requires independent secondary sourcing. Also, I think there are more appropriate ways for us to divide superheroes into sub-lists - by publisher (Marvel, DC, etc.) for example, or by “age” (Golden Age, Silver Age, etc). When it comes to creating sub-lists for fictional characters, we should avoid “in universe” criteria, if possible. Blueboar (talk) 12:09, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - There's no established inclusion criteria. North Africans are included apparently for the sole reason they are "similar". Editors have included superheroes as far reaching as Afghans and Muslim-like Aliens. It does not seem worth putting in the effort to create reasonable, non-biased, inclusion criteria for a list that adds little to no value. -- Bob drobbs (talk) 15:28, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I'm not sure that Middle East is the best heading for this but List of Arab superheroes redirects to the same page and that's got potential – see Superheroes in Arabic Culture, for example. And then there's the recent trailer for Marvel's First Arab Superhero but that spoof demonstrates that it's not much good looking to the US for this. See Arab Comic Strips – Politics of an Emerging Mass Culture. The initials to be looking for are not DC but others like AK... Andrew🐉(talk) 18:03, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- This AfD is not about an "Arab superheroes" page: if you think such page can exist, please start it. List of Middle Eastern superheroes is a different topic, and can not even be a correct redirect to an Arab superheroes page, so, anyhow, List of Middle Eastern superheroes is up for deletion here, while it does not seem to have a viable reason to exist in Wikipedia. It doesn't seem to pass WP:NLIST. A different topic (Arab superheroes) might, and you have at least given a few sources that seem to indicate its viability, but none of these sources talk about "Middle Eastern" superheroes. The Middle East and the Arab world are not synonyms. Also, the problems that appear to exist for the Middle Eastern variety (see WP:FTN#Are all Jews to be called "Middle Eastern" ?) may dissipate on an Arab superheroes page, but that doesn't mean we should keep the problematic Middle Eastern superheroes variant, which rather seems an anomaly. --Francis Schonken (talk) 05:21, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Arab is not synonymous with Middle Eastern I agree with Francis. There has been tremendous bias on the page of including anyone vaguely Muslim or Arab-like, irrespective of how much of a connection they have with the Middle East, while the excluding Jews. This is why I added the POV tag to it. I would have no problem if the page was deleted and a new list of "Arab Superheroes" was created. -- Bob drobbs (talk) 05:31, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It is reasonable to group people and fictional characters by region of origin. And the Middle East is a long-established region. Dimadick (talk) 19:23, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Ultimately, most of the Middle East is already part of Asia, specifically Western Asia (though most of Egypt is part of North Africa). Most of the heroes on the "Middle Eastern superhero list" are already mentioned on the List of Asian superheroes page. With the exception being heroes/comic book character of North African origin (which isn't even correct, because Egypt is the only Middle Eastern country mainly in North Africa). Off topic, but I guess, one could suggest to rename the page to be a list of Arab superheroes (which would probably be far more substantial/noteworthy), but that's a discussion for another time. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 05:40, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect - per Clear Looking Glass. Instead of trying to parse out different overlapping but distinct groups (Middle Eastern, Arab, Muslim, again, all distinct) it is best to cover this in something that meets Wikipedia’s standards for WP:IINFO. This is already covered by a clearer article. Archrogue (talk) 17:34, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete WP:FANCRUFT at best WP:IINFO at worst. Essentially WP:INUNIVERSE to boot. jps (talk) 21:26, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: per WP:FANCRUFT, lacks WP:GNG CommanderWaterford (talk) 22:29, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Based on what Clear Looking Glass and other users said, I changed my mind. --Rsk6400 (talk) 06:48, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.