Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of James Bond allies in Die Another Day (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. seicer | talk | contribs 04:00, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of James Bond allies in Die Another Day[edit]

Undue weight to a topic which could be covered (and should be, in an abbreviated form) in the Die Another Day cast list. Does not assert notability through sources covering james bond allies in the film. Looking through the previous AfD, I see no way the concerns about sourcing were met; the only information worth anything could be used in the film article, but does not justify this list's existence. -Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 21:03, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Nothing has changed to suggest any reason to overturn the AFD of only a few months ago. There is no time limit on Wikipedia except in cases of WP:BLP violation. 23skidoo (talk) 21:40, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An article can be deleted at any time for failing to assert notability; considering the admin closed it assuming that the source would appear, it's a relevant question; I myself have found nothing to support its notability on a search of my own; can you find any? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 22:32, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 22:28, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 22:29, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As I said in the last (very recent) AfD, this is a legitimate entry in a series of articles on the allies, villains and henchmen of the James Bond films. Merging would unnecessarily bloat the main film article, and articles like this serve to limit the tendency to create articles for each character. I did a Google Books search and there is enough significant coverage in major published work to adequately source this article. I will work on it shortly. --Canley (talk) 06:19, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know this would bloat the main article, that's why I'm saying frag it, not merge. Any good movie article should be able to adequately describe the plot and characters in its own article. These sublists for a two-hour movie violate WP:PLOT, WP:UNDUE, and WP:WAF. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 13:47, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Listing a bunch of guidelines, policies and essays is all very well, but it's a real stretch to say this list "violates" any of the above. WP:PLOT says that sourced real-world context and impact is appropriate, this list contains that. WP:UNDUE is an NPOV guideline, and not at all relevant. WP:WAF is a manual of style, and if the article can be improved to follow the MOS more closely, then it can be without the need to "frag" it. --Canley (talk) 21:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All the information should be listed in the cast section of the movie article; in fact, most of it already is, and there is still plenty of room for the rest of the non-plot details. What would be needed to justify this page is reception of each individual character or development information. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 22:29, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(Unconventional) up-merge to List of James Bond characters in Die Another Day with the other character lists of this film. This list already passes my don't-delete criteria (although barely), but the other lists don't, so upmerging saves all of them to some extent. (The images still need to go.) – sgeureka ^t•c 13:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Delete cruft. Nothing more to say. Bulldog123 (talk) 18:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete — excessive undue weight given to this specific group of characters in the film. Merge any verifiable, salvageable information to the film article or to the character list. sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 18:29, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep The purpose of the lists was to merge all the articles in such a way that would prevent the seperated articles from being deleted. This article is part of a series. To take this one away from the series as shown on the template {{James Bond characters}} would beg the question by new users or old users "Wheres the article on ones with Die Another Day". Then they would just probably create it again. I'm not saying delete them all, but these articles CAN be sourced but they just don't have the dedicated users who would like to do source it. The article was viewed 3183 times in August ([1]). Not alot but theres still enough interest in the article, so I cannot say delete it for the sake of non-nobility and one users demands to purge Wikipedia of articles for the sake of it. The Windler talk 20:43, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That 'keep' doesn't explain how the lists are in keeping with WP:PLOT, WAF, WP:NOT. Just because a page is visited doesn't mean it should exist. Fails GNG at present; and we can salt the article if deleted (thus making it impossible for the article to be recreated), that's not the issue. Find us the sources and then you have a valid keep. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 20:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.