Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Everton F.C. international players

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 09:04, 15 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List of Everton F.C. international players

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Previous consensus has determined that lists such as these are overly specific and don't warrant a seperate article. There are also referencing issues. J Mo 101 (talk) 10:32, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages for similar reasons:

I have notified the creators of the extra bundled articles as they had not been notified. Edinburgh Wanderer 20:06, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. J Mo 101 (talk) 10:41, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Do you have a link to the previous consensus? The lists seem legitimate but I'd be interested to see the debate. --Colapeninsula (talk) 11:11, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Previous AfD here. J Mo 101 (talk) 11:18, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all per previous consensus and the fact that these lists are pure overkill. Giant Snowman 12:22, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge all This is a notable achievement shown in an encyclopedic way. These lists are perfect for the average reader who would like to find out who has been capped for another country while playing for their club. The solution is to merge into the existing lists for these clubs, adding an extra column to show international caps (if any). Lugnuts (talk) 18:14, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete Weak because WP:ILIKEIT, delete because I can't make a real argument against the precedent. --BDD (talk) 20:42, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge all Article should not just be deleted as there is encyclopaedic content there. They should be merged to their respective players articles for instance List of Rangers F.C. players. Some may already be listed others not.Edinburgh Wanderer 21:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I've now done this for Cardiff City in a similar format to the Rangers list. I'll leave the Everton and Coventry internationals for now as both lists are poorly sourced. J Mo 101 (talk) 16:50, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:45, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge all although oversize will evetually become a problem for major clubs and then we will have to discuss this all over. I beleave having separate lists for "All-time/notable players" and "Internationals" is a better solution for those cases. Also, I am not so sure the claimed consensus over WP:OLIST was reached in the previous discussion. Some editors agreed on OLIST, some just voted to delete because those two lists lacked sources... OLIST would be for exemple, having a "List of Everton defenders" or a "List of Everton players over 1.90 meters tall", but national team appereances are actually notable feature, and a quite different situation from the trivial ones. I have absolutelly nothing against lists of internationals when adequatelly sourced and wikified, and I do not consider them OLIST. FkpCascais (talk) 10:04, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The standard way of dealing with size issues is to split lists based on number of appearances (has already been done for Cardiff). There's no reason why content about international caps couldn't be used instead to improve the more general lists (e.g. List of Birmingham City F.C. players), which would make a seperate article almost redundant. J Mo 101 (talk) 10:51, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes, Birmingham lists are the ideal solution. I was more warried that in case of having all players separated in 2 or 3 lists, as Birmingham has, the solution found for List_of_Eintracht_Frankfurt_players would then not be so good then. And also, many other lists from the do use different forms of listing, so I was wandering how those different cases could be dealt. Some make it more easy to include the national team stats, some don´t. FkpCascais (talk) 12:07, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - in the Eintracht Frankfurt AfD, it looks like the consensus to delete that page was because that info was already present in another article and that it was WP:OR, rather then a consensus against "List of Foo FC international players". I can't find any good reason to delete these, as they are referenced. Mentoz86 (talk) 20:42, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – for major professional sports teams with a significant number of international players, composing a list of such players is encyclopedic and not overly specific, as international caps is a highly defining aspect of a club and its players. I further agree with Mentoz86 that the Eintracht Frankfurt AfD was deleted because of lack of sources, and that no matter how I read it, there is no consensus for an all-out deletion of international cap lists. Finally, I am concerned about the merge votes here, because they do not address how the cap list should be incorporated into the main player list. Most importantly, the player list includes only those players with more than 100 matches. The caps lists should be converted to a sortable table which would include (at least) player name, country (with link to national team), international caps, period and possibly a list of major tournaments (World Cup, Euro) while playing for the club. This would provide amble encyclopedic information which it would not be possible to display in the general players lists. Arsenikk ^(talk) 07:56, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Info about international caps is included in the Birmingham City list mentioned above. Furthermore, isn't lack of sources also an issue for these lists as well? Only English players are referenced in the Everton article, and the source in the Coventry and Rangers lists only mention Scottish players. J Mo 101 (talk) 17:01, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.