Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Catholic musicians

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. -Splashtalk 17:55, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

List of Catholic musicians, List of Catholic actors[edit]

This is a collective nomination for the List of Catholic musicians and the List of Catholic actors. The fact that the people listed there are Catholic is incidental to their profession as artists.

Do not categorize members of the lists as Catholic unless they are prominent as followers of Catholicism.

In case someone says "But Sinead O'Connor is notable for being excommunicated" I'd answer that she is indeed notable for that but that fact that she is Catholic has no bearing on her career as a singer. Pilatus 00:35, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Cooment on that, FWIW: I would guess that the fact that she is (or was) Catholic had a lot to do with why she has strong feelings about the Pope. Which led her to tear up the Pope's photo on national TV (most Protestants, Hindus, etc. wouldn't do that 'cuz they would care that much about about the Pope). Which severely impacted her singing career, nagatively.Herostratus 16:54, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep — The nomination criteria fails to specify how this meets the criteria for not being suitably encyclopedic. On the contrary I think this is a perfectly valid list, although it could be done just as well be managed with a category. — RJH 01:05, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • The fact that a Catholic theologian is Catholic has a bearing on his work. The fact that any actor is typically has not. One is useful information, the other is just incidental data. WP:NOT a grab-bag of data. (I said that above.) Pilatus 01:09, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • I remain unpersuaded. Sorry. A list of accomplisted members of a particular faith is of interest to some. It doesn't need to be of interest to everybody to be encyclopedic. — RJH
  • Delete. Being Catholic has no inherent bearing on the way an actor reads a line. Durova 02:41, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:NOT Nandesuka 05:19, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per above. 23skidoo 05:22, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Since our categorization system doesn't allow us to -for example- find unions of classifications ("Catholic musicians" or, say "American Female Catholic Episcopalian Singers"), this is information contained nowhere else. - Nunh-huh 05:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Several major search engines offer Boolean search functions, allowing users to customize unique searches just as you describe. Durova 14:28, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • We offer no mechanism for this, nor would a search engine be of much use unless articles were tagged in a manner other than the way we currently do it. As an exercise, devise the search which would locate all of Wikipedia's biographies of women. Use any search engine with any functions you care to. Saying it can be done is, you will see, far easier than actually doing it. - Nunh-huh 23:15, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • A Wikipedia entry of this sort in itself would be of little use, other than to provide a starting point for further research. I have done Boolean searches on ostensibly unrelated topics. A laundry list of names wouldn't have made much impact on the research. Durova 23:49, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • And your search for "biographies of women on Wikipedia" would be....what? - Nunh-huh 00:10, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete for cogent reasons stated above. Denni ☯ 05:54, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete both articles per nomination. I wonder if George Harrison would have been amused to find himself on the List of Catholic musicians with no further comment as to his religious beliefs. The list of Catholic actors isn't even limited to actors (contrary to the article, not everyone who appears on television is acting). --Metropolitan90 06:22, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • On the musician one it did need clean up. I request viewing the current version with edits I've done. For example George Harrison is no longer on it.--T. Anthony 02:09, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete both per above reasons. Edwardian 06:40, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom, Dpbsmith's argument. Dottore So 07:56, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per my reasoning above: These are impossible to be comprehensive, mistitled, and misguided. Geogre 11:07, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom, Dpbsmith, Geogre and Metropolitan90. Anville 11:10, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete pointless inaccurate list. Delete the others like this too. Marcus22 12:27, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per the above. — Haeleth Talk 13:53, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per DbSmith's arguments -Doc ask? 19:40, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nomination. Jtmichcock 22:58, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Antidote 23:30, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nomination. Ejrrjs | [[User talk:Ejrrjs|What?]] 07:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. --Locke Cole (talk) (e-mail) 07:38, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep this and all the other lists nom for AfD recently. All part of a WP:POINT campaign. --Elliskev 19:38, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as above. JBH 22:19, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep List of Catholic musicians but redo it the way I helped redo the Catholic artists one. Meaning make a note stating they have to be singers of Catholic music or musicians whose Catholic faith is otherwise important to their music. For example Mary Lou Williams was involved in the first Catholic "Jazz Mass." Delete List of Catholic actors because I don't see the relevance. Final comment, please don't do these two in one deletes unless they are absolutely the same kind of thing.--T. Anthony 00:07, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have tried to redo Catholic musicians that way. I am also moving some composers I put on Catholic artists to it.--T. Anthony 00:23, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Lastly I request you take a look at the redo of Catholic musicians before voting. Also that if it is deleted you'll in least consider an article on Contemporary Catholic music which does have some differences from what's popularly called Contemporary Christian music. (It's a bit more Celtic or Latin American for one. Folk and jazz seem more common from what I've listened to)--T. Anthony 00:51, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
(I forgot I'd voted here already so I deleted previous vote as this one more reflects my view.--T. Anthony 20:51, 19 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]
  • keep--HistoricalPisces 19:05, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete As with similar lists, creating a list of two items of low correlation seems pointless. Sure, some actors are Catholic, but what of it? Do we create lists for every possible combination of religion and occupation? If religion is important, then gender is more so - why not List of male musicians? How about combinations? List of female vegetarian musicians anyone? Turnstep 02:42, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
To burst your bubble a tad the List of male singers has been an article since November 26, 2003.--T. Anthony 04:42, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Although the List of Francophone male singers only dates from March 5, 2004.--T. Anthony 04:46, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep. Catholicism has no bearing on the career of Sinead O'Connor??? Very, very weak argument. --JJay 10:24, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The current edit I've done, unless it's been reverted, on Catholic musicians is such that I think virtually all of the ones currently listed are musicians where Catholicism has some bearing on their careers. Sometimes strongly so.(The Singing Nun(even including her later escapades), Father Stan Fortuna, the Papal count guy, etc)--T. Anthony 12:39, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It's nowhere near that insignificant. Look we have no List of plumbers, List of dentists, or List of unicyclists of any kind. Arguments should in least try to compare Grannie Smith apples to Jonathan's apples, instead of comparing any apple to rutabagas. For example you could say this should be deleted because there is no List of Methodist musicians, or List of Hindu musicians. Comparing the popular interest of religious music to religious dentistry or plumbing is flippant and weak.--T. Anthony 04:28, 26 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It's possible this should die as there's no other list of specific denomination music. Still how should I place the modern ones in List of CCM artists? They don't exactly fit the CCM genre, but it's the closest thing I can think of. Just dump them in without explanation or add notes?--T. Anthony 10:21, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind I see there are other CCM lists they might work with better.--T. Anthony 10:21, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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