Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Le Calandre

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 01:58, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Le Calandre[edit]

Le Calandre (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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I prodded it with the following rationale: "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (biographies) requirement. " It was deprodded by User:Necrothesp the rationale "one of the top 50 restaurants in the world is probably notable". Well, it's an interesting issue: is inclusion in the The World's 50 Best Restaurants sufficient to make a restaurant notable? I think not, a lot of those would be perennial stubs with little to say except that it exists somewhere and won this award. I think inclusion in that list should not be enough for a stand-alone article, which should require further sources - at best those restaurants can be mentioned in the list of restaurants which made it to the The World's 50 Best Restaurants ranking. I'll also note most of those old lists have little visibility, not being archived on the awarding site's (as far as I can tell), being available only in the Internet Archive, which does not suggest this is a lasting, significant recognition (without TIA it would be almost impossible to verify those claims at all). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:22, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep as detailed above. Not many restaurants make it onto the list; those that do are clearly notable. It also has three Michelin stars! -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:25, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Clearly notable per what policy? Don't say it is common sense. Common sense applies to things that have household recognition. 99.9% of people (or our editors) have never heard of that obscure award. Not all awards grant auto-notability. Michelin is a bit more famous, but again, I don't see this in the rules anywhere. We have a List of Michelin 3-star restaurants which can mention such tiny-stub restaurants without a need for them to have a stand-alone two sentence entry. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:33, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • Michelin is "a bit more famous"!? You really couldn't make this stuff up! -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:41, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 10:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 10:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Another three-star restaurant at AfD! Of course there are sources to confirm notability. In English, here are a couple that can be used to start expanding the article: WWD, Food & Wine. Lots more in English and Italian. AfD evaluates articles based on their potential, not their current state, and the suggestion that highly distinguished restaurants like this one should be relegated to a listing on a chart is counterproductive; our content about these establishments can and should be expanded and improved, not banished and reduced to uselessness.--Arxiloxos (talk) 20:13, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Babymissfortune 11:32, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep for the mean time. Per Arxiloxos addressed, this article has the ability to grow in the near future. However, as of now, the article is an utter stub and fit for deletion. Ernestchuajiasheng (talk) 17:21, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Merge to List of Michelin 3-star restaurants, though I don't oppose a Keep. The coverage is almost all in Italian. What I find is either on the Michelin stars, or on Massimiliano Alajmo. power~enwiki (π, ν) 23:32, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Notable restaurant judging from 100s of sources, and quoting from a few:
"one of Italy's most cutting-edge restaurants"
"is consistently judged by major restaurant critics as one of the two or three best restaurants in the country"
"This is truly a restaurant at the pinnacle of culinary achievement."
"Le Calandre is without doubt one of the top restaurants of the world."
I have added 25 sources and expanded.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26]

References

  1. ^ Gori, Andrea (1 December 2017). "Raffaele e Massimiliano Alajmo: fratelli in affari". Retrieved 3 December 2017.
  2. ^ "Le Calandre tra i 16 ristoranti più "cool" del 2016 secondo Forbes". Retrieved 3 December 2017.
  3. ^ "Le Calandre restaurant review 2012 May Rubano – Italian Cuisine – food guide – Andy Hayler". www.andyhayler.com. 4 May 2012. Retrieved 3 December 2017.
  4. ^ "Le Calandre". The World's 50 Best Restaurants. Retrieved 3 December 2017.
  5. ^ Food & Wine: The Guide to Good Taste. Vol. 33. International Review of Food & Wine Associates. July 2010. pp. 54–. Two years later, they took over La Montecchia and handed Le Calandre over to Massimiliano (Massi or Max, for short) and his older brother Raffaele, or Raf. ... In 1996, the 22-year-old Massi became the youngest chef with two Michelin stars. Six years later, he beat his own record by snagging a third.
  6. ^ "Le Calandre nella Top 20 mondiale dei ristoranti – Corriere del Veneto". corrieredelveneto.corriere.it. Retrieved 6 December 2017.
  7. ^ "I 50 migliori ristoranti al mondo, Le Calandre salgono di 12 posizioni". Retrieved 6 December 2017.
  8. ^ Hayler, Andy (5 October 2012). "The expert selection: Michelin three-star restaurants". Financial Times. Retrieved 3 December 2017.
  9. ^ Fodor's (22 March 2011). Fodor's Venice and Northern Italy. Fodor's Travel. pp. 132–. ISBN 978-0-307-92814-6.
  10. ^ Food & Wine: The Guide to Good Taste. Vol. 33. International Review of Food & Wine Associates. July 2010. pp. 52–.
  11. ^ "There is no truth except the one contained in the ingredients – TeatroNaturale.Com". www.teatronaturale.com. Retrieved 6 December 2017.
  12. ^ "MICHELIN guide Italy 2018 – the new selection". travelguide.michelin.com. Retrieved 5 December 2017.
  13. ^ Bob Macdonald (7 August 2012). Knives on the Cutting Edge: The Great Chefs' Dining Revolution. Mighty Media, Incorporated. pp. 71–. ISBN 978-0-9830219-9-5. Le Calandre in Rubano, west of Venice, offers dramatic modern decor in an otherwise mundane village. Now considered one of Italy's most cutting-edge restaurants (it had two stars when we visited in 1998, and got its third star in 2002), we were quite impressed by such offerings as the pumpkin and Gorgonzola flan, white truffle gnocci, poached egg with spinach in truffled cream sauce, and spaghetti with prosciutto, mushrooms, and marjoram. We particularly appreciated the Italian ... Alajmo joined the family restaurant in 1993 and earned his second star at age twenty-two in 1996, working with his brother Ruffaele who runs the front of the house.
  14. ^ Jean-François Mesplède (1 April 2004). Trois étoiles au Michelin: Une histoire de la haute gastronomie française et européenne (in French). Gründ. ISBN 978-2-7000-2468-5. Le 19 mars 1994, très solennellement, Erminio Alajmo a remis à ses fils les clés du restaurant Le Calandre, à Sarmeola di Rubano, près de Padoue.
  15. ^ "Recipe for success: three leading chefs talk about starting young in the kitchen". Retrieved 3 December 2017.
  16. ^ "Le Calandre, nuovo corso di Alajmo Via le tovaglie, piatti sul frassino secolare". Corriere del Veneto. Retrieved 6 December 2017.
  17. ^ "Guida Michelin 2017, "Le Calandre" confermate festeggiano 15 anni di "Tre Stelle"". Retrieved 6 December 2017.
  18. ^ "World's 50 best restaurants 2010: the full list". 26 April 2010. Retrieved 6 December 2017 – via www.theguardian.com.
  19. ^ Time Out: Italy. Time Out Guides. 2008. pp. 203–. ISBN 978-1-84670-046-0. Massimiliano Alajmo took over his parents' one-star restaurant, Le Calandre, when he was only 19. Not only did he not lose that star - as sometimes happens when a new chef comes in - but three years later he was awarded a second, at a mere 22 years old. Unlike in France, where many restaurants have three stars, in Italy the Red Guide is parsimonious with its highest accolades: to date only a handful of restaurants have made it into the three-star culinary pantheon.
  20. ^ "Le Calandre restaurant owners to open London outpost". Retrieved 6 December 2017.
  21. ^ "Massimiliano Alajmo e la pizza stellata". VanityFair.it. 6 May 2017. Retrieved 3 December 2017.
  22. ^ "Le Calandre restaurant review 2012 May Rubano – Italian Cuisine – food guide – Andy Hayler". www.andyhayler.com. Retrieved 6 December 2017.
  23. ^ Ravi Wazir (1 March 2015). Restaurant Startup: A Practical Guide (3rd Edition). Ravi Wazir. pp. 280–. ISBN 978-1-5084-4558-6.
  24. ^ "Il Mozart dei fornelli". Retrieved 6 December 2017.
  25. ^ "Review of Rubano Italian restaurant Le Calandre by Andy Hayler in December 2013". www.andyhayler.com. Retrieved 6 December 2017.
  26. ^ "The 16 Coolest Places To Eat In 2016". Forbes. Retrieved 3 December 2017.
Is anyone suggesting that WP:BEFORE was followed here?
This AfD discussion starts with quoting a boilerplate saying the coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient ..., but notability is based on the existence of suitable sources, not on the state of sourcing in an article, and to evaluate that requires WP:BEFORE. To add insult to injury, it was obviously the wrong boilerplate being copy-pasted from User:Piotrus/Templates: this is not a biography, and while another kind editor has corrected the AfD category to |O in this diff, the nomination text retains the erroneous and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (biographies) requirement.
It is being stated above in regards to previous lists of The World's 50 Best Restaurants that most of those old lists have little visibility, not being archived on the awarding site's (as far as I can tell), being available only in the Internet Archive, which does not suggest this is a lasting, significant recognition (without TIA it would be almost impossible to verify those claims at all). This is a misunderstanding, as (a) whether a source is live or archived is irrelevant to its value (WP:404 etc.), and more importantly (b) we use independent sources, not primary, to judge notability (WP:IS etc.). If, however, one would continue to argue that the live presence of these lists on the contrary suggested "a lasting, significant recognition", then some foot damage is happening here. Go to www.theworlds50best.com and choose LIST from the menu, then choose PREVIOUS LISTS, then choose YYYY LIST. Voila! Took 10 seconds. All lists are live online. I do prefer secondary sources, and a quick search has so far brought about reliable sources confirming Le Calandre's placement on the list for each of the last 9 years. It took me about 15 minutes. So it is not impossible to verify those claims at all.
AfD nominations like these are a waste of community time, gut feeling "notable? dubious, prodding" prods like this are harmful given the lack of WP:BEFORE, and WP:ATD is policy and should be followed. Sam Sailor 13:24, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep the superb rating it received which is veriafiable and the sources provided above do indeed establish notability. Also existence of such vast number of sources in English do surely suggest more will be found in, their language, Italian. Also mass nomination with copy/paste rationale is surely not great idea –Ammarpad (talk) 00:02, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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