Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lauren Grandcolas

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus ~ trialsanderrors 03:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lauren Grandcolas[edit]

Lauren Grandcolas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Tagged for speedy deletion and contested; "unencyclopedic" is not a valid speedy criterion. 9/11 victim with press coverage; that may be notability be default. No vote. Chick Bowen 02:08, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. The article was definitely "unencyclopedic" when it was tagged for speedy deletion. [1] However, it has been rewritten. Grandcolas is one of the passengers on United Airlines Flight 93 to make phone calls. Her name is also linked on the United Airlines Flight 93 article. The phone calls are significant, as they give indication of what might have happened on the flight. The topic of phone calls also comes up from time to time in 9/11 conspiracy theories, with some belief that these calls came from cell phones. This call, like nearly all of them, came from an airphone and not a cell phone. --Aude (talk) 02:19, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Aude Missvain 04:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete as independent coverage exists but the same goes for a large number of non-notable 9/11 victims and Wikipedia is not a memorial. I don't find the phone calls by themselves convincing, as there were quite a few phone calls made. --Dhartung | Talk 07:09, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep or Merge to the United Airlines Flight 93, although that would require a mrege of any other persons noted in that article.SkierRMH 09:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • "...although that would require a merge of [others]" -- why not? Pan Dan 14:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete per Dhartung, Wikipedia is not a memorial. Amists talk • contribs 11:25, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The article now includes more details, which I think demonstrate that she qualifies under WP:BIO.
  1. The person has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person. (including newspaper articles)
  2. Published authors, editors and photographers who received multiple independent reviews of or awards for their work.
  3. Persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events. --Aude (talk) 16:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Disagree she passes WP:BIO (probably). Responding,
  1. The Some sources of which she is a primary subject are commemorative, like obituaries. They do not show notability as Wikipedia is not a memorial.
  2. No indication that You Can Do It has "received multiple independent reviews" or awards. In light of sources provided by Aude, I see the book has been covered.
  3. Don't think it could fairly be said that she achieved "renown" (and certainly not notoriety). Pan Dan 14:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
With Ohconfucius' edits, some of the references were (inadvertently?) deleted. I have restored them and added more references, including Publishers Weekly and National Review. In all, Google finds 11,000+ hits [2] when searching "you can do it" + "grandcolas". One could search other combinations, and surely come up with more/different results. There is plenty of verifiable material out there. --Aude (talk) 16:52, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep due to association with very notable events. (If consensus objections are rasied from friends and relatives, then delete.) --Whiskey Pete
  • Delete per Amists. Tempshill 18:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Regrettably, neither she, her husband, not her family passes WP:BIO, the media obsession for info of courage and human interest notwithstanding. The article is so skewed towards her non notable career that one would easily miss the claimed importance of the call she made. Anyhoo, to say that her last phone message to her husband was played in the Discovery Channel docudrama is a far cry from having a 30 minute program about her. This is a best case merge into trivia (of United Airlines Flight 93) scenario. There's already a place for that here - Wiki is not a 911 memorial. Ohconfucius 01:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. The article has now been cleaned up as being more like a biography. Nevertheless, I maintain my original vote. Ohconfucius 05:06, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as rewritten, plenty of independent and verifiable sources here to make this worthwhile. RFerreira 06:52, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails WP:BIO. The only Some sources of which of which she is a primary subject (e.g. in the Post-Gazette) don't show notability as they were published only to commemorate her as a 9/11 victim, and Wikipedia is not a memorial. Pan Dan 14:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Pan Dan's reply to Aude. --Pak21 16:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changing opinion to keep as sources provided by Aude show she probably passes WP:BIO as an author. Comment: Because her book, not the call she made on 9/11, is her claim to notability (in my opinion), it should be mentioned in the lead. Pan Dan 20:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. She was non-notable before 9/11, and her book had not been accepted for publication at that time. The book itself is a non-notable contribution to the self-help genre, and, realistically, was probably accepted for publication simply so the publisher could cash in on her status as a 9/11 victim. I'm sure she was a good and nice person, but she was not notable. If we accept this article we start down the slippery slope to separate articles for every victim of terrorism, and, in due course, every soldier killed in the line of duty. Many good and kind people have died in sad circumstances, and every one of them is a loss to their friends and family. Notability derives from activity, not simple presence at a historic event. WMMartin 17:57, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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