Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kumobius

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Duet (video game). Opinion is all over the map, but a redirect seems like a reasonable middle ground (and honors WP:ATD). The article history is still there, so if anybody really wants to mine this for text to merge, it's available. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:24, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kumobius[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Declined for CSD for reasons that seem extraneous to policy given that the article contained no claim of significance whatsoever. Fails WP:ORGDEPTH for lack of significant coverage in independent reliable sources. - Mr X 16:52, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or Merge with Duet (video game) - the latter reason is why I declined the CSD. A news search shows lots of hits; however I'm an ignoramus when it comes to games released after Jet Set Willy so another editor will have to take up the mantle of expanding the article. Paging Czar who wrote the Duet article. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 17:01, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 17:24, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 17:24, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 17:25, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There are sources on the subject, but they are not nearly sufficient to establish notability. My very best wishes (talk) 17:38, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think a decline of A7 is completely appropriate given that the page makes the reasonable claim that the topic organization developed a notable video game. I think there might reasonably be a discussion to be had about the play between WP:NORG-as-a-whole (and especially WP:INHERITORG) and WP:PRODUCT with some thought to WP:Summary style and especially WP:CREATIVE, but that's a bit offtopic for this AFD. --Izno (talk) 17:45, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. (edit conflict) Added a bunch of sources from the video game reliable sources custom Google search. Some of the minor games' sources are brief listings, while another game could warrant its own article. It's best, in these cases, to write an overview article of the developer's games, with due weight to each game's coverage in the sources. I wouldn't be opposed to a merge to Duet here, on principle as a useful redirect target, but since I dug up the sources, might as well keep. Though, I think it would have been more appropriate to have sent this draft to AfC so the author could have learned about Wikipedia, worked on polish/sourcing, etc. czar 17:59, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I tried to convince the user to go down the draft path, Draft:Kumobius, to avoid an AfD but I don't think the reasoning was quite understood. Salavat (talk) 05:07, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral - Anyone should read one of past discussions about notability, although the discussion was mainly about WP:NSPORTS. There, it says that any subject-specific guideline may neither replace nor supersede WP:GNG, the long-standing guideline. I made a note at Wikipedia talk:Notability (organizations and companies)#‎Old VPP decision regarding GNG and subject-specific guidelines about that discussion, so anyone there can discuss the decision.
Regarding how the company meets GNG, I looked at sources used in the article. Most of them are just reviews toward the company's own games, written by mostly Gamezebo and Toucharcade. The games Duet and Time Surfer are cited by diverse range of sources in the list, but that's all there is. The reviews by Gamezebo and Touch Arcade are just promoting the awareness of the company and its games. If the company fails GNG, logically the article about it should not exist. Also, the WP:NORG neither supersedes nor replaces GNG, so if the company fails GNG, that guideline may be... not effective to help keep the article. I tried searching for sources that are not from Touch Arcade. I saw reviews about Duet and Time Surfer. Pocket Gamer substantially would make the company notable, but it's about another one of games, Bean Dreams or Bean's Quest. I also found CNET review about Bean's Quest.
Whether it passes or fails GNG, I'm unsure, but finding independent sources is not easy. Nonetheless, WP:NTEMP (part of Notability guideline) and WP:V#Notability should supersede GNG if any subject-specific guideline doesn't. However, we are discussing a stub-looking article about one video game company with a bare-bones list of games. Some would say that the article is used to promote the supposedly "non-notable" company itself. However, third-party sources would verify the notabilities of a few games, though that doesn't make the company automatically notable. The article can be treated like some list of games done by one company, but I'm unsure whether it violates WP:NOTDIR. Still, the article might have some potential notability, even when the company would fail GNG. --George Ho (talk) 06:42, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Move/rename I could not find anything sufficient for the company to meet GNG. Many, if not most, of their games could have articles, but notability is not inherited. Perhaps the article could be renamed to a List of games by Kumobius? And then the N rules are very different, but there is not NEXIST that I can see for an in-depth CORP article. 12:23, 13 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aoziwe (talk • contribs) Sorry - yes - thanks Aoziwe (talk) 13:51, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete while there are references, they all appear to be coverage of their products in the trade press. There's a total of one line of prose in the article. Power~enwiki (talk) 05:08, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Duet (video game). Current available coverage seems to be almost exclusively about the games. This is the only source I could find that covers the company itself, not just "game by Kumobius" (apart from interviews). I think this company might very well be notable in the future, but for now, we can redirect it to their only game with an article. Regards So Why 14:38, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.