Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kiss and Tell (album)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Selena Gomez#Music. JForget 21:37, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kiss and Tell (album)[edit]

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From WP:NALBUM, "an album should not have an independent article until its title, track listing and release date have all been publicly confirmed by the artist or their record label." POKERdance ^talk/contribs 23:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Changing my vote from delete to strong delete. Since I nominated this article, it has just grown into a major WP:CRYSTAL violation, discussing tracks that may be or may not be on the album. Also, hardly any of the content has to do with the album; it seems to be more about Gomez as a recording artist, which is already discussed in her article. POKERdance ^talk/contribs 02:11, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This AfD is missing step 2, the discussion should be relisted and a page made. I'm an IP editor so I cannot finish the process. --98.154.26.247 (talk) 00:15, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: What the heck are you on about? This page wouldn't exist if this was missing step 2. POKERdance ^talk/contribs 00:44, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article has reliable third party sources and just because it doesn't have track listing yet doesn't mean it should be deleted. See albums like The Time of Our Lives, Light & Darkness, Mi Plan, Independent, Before I Self Destruct and others. There is not a track lisitng yet... but there is sufficient info for an article. --Ipodnano05 (talk) 00:31, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Those articles you mentioned, are high-profile projects and/or are receiving significant coverage in reliable sources, and thus meet the WP:GNG. However, this is neither. Sure, there are reliable sources (Amazon.com, E! Online, MTV, and People), but they only confirm the release date and other minor details, and one of those references is from last year and is not about the album. The rest are from unreliable sources, such as an Oceanup-reminiscent blog called Disney Dreaming.

Since this article fails both WP:NALBUM and the WP:GNG, just wait until either, (1) the complete track listing is confirmed by Selena or Hollywood, or (2) it receives more coverage in reliable sources. See WP:CHILL. POKERdance ^talk/contribs 00:44, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

O.K. Thant sounds fair and as far for the disneydreaming I didn't see them... I'll remove those. --Ipodnano05 (talk) 03:39, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- The leftorium 21:31, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Selena Gomez until more information is available/it becomes more notable. There is no use in deleting the article since it will more than likely become notable for it's own article soon as the release date is only about a month and a half or so away. As of right now though, my opinion is that it's not notable enough for it's own article. The release date and title were just barely released. There is no artwork and the only confirmed song for the tracklist that I can tell is the new version/remix of "Tell Me Something I Don't Know." No other tracks are confirmed as none of the ones have a source. Redirecting to Selena Gomez until at least an official tracklist is released would be the best option in my opinion.--Rockin56 (talk) 23:31, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Selena Gomez until an official, sourced tracklist surfaces, or it otherwise passes WP:NALBUMS. Right now, it's just speculation, other than the name. (No exercise for my hammer today!) talking birds 18:25, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dont delete it! The album was confirmed by a couple of websites (Angry Ape, Ace Showbiz, Her Myspace, Amazon, Ocean Up, Just Jared, Pop Justice, and many other websites have confirmed the album) and also confirmed by the singer's official Myspace page. And the release date for the album is set for September 5th so you can't delete it now. And it may not be updated all the way but that's part of the article you leave the article and update it later until it get's more sources Well I think I answered all your questions. Now I suggest you get rid of the Nomanation for Deletion. User:Sprite7868|<User talk:Sprite7868 04:10, 9 August 2009 (UTC

Welcome to Wikipedia! Unfortunately, WP:ITEXISTS is not a valid argument here at Articles for Deletion. If something does not pass notability guidelines (like Kiss and Tell does not pass the notability guideline for albums because no reliable sources have confirmed the tracklisting and release date), it may be removed from Wikipedia until it meets those guidelines (in this case, when the tracklist is confirmed by a reliable, third-party site). Also, the article currently says that the album will be released on September 28th. If you have a reliable source saying otherwise, be bold and edit the article saying what the confirmed release date is! :) talking birds 01:18, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (directed at Sprite7868): Your argument failed completely the moment you implied that Angry Ape, OceanUp, Pop Justice, and Just Jared were reliable sources. Those are gossip websites and in most cases can not be used as a reliable source for information. The release date may be set, but until we get an official track listing confirmed by Gomez or her record label, this article fails WP:NALBUM. The world will not end tomorrow. POKERdance ^talk/contribs 03:36, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (directed at Pokerdance): Those are just some examples of the websites. I couldn't find any reliable sources so I put some examples of unreliable websites I'm trying to help you get this article undeleted. So can you just bare with me on the album. I'm sure they will come out with a tracklist sooner or later.User:Sprite7868|<User talk:Sprite7868 10:05, 11 August 2009 (UTC

Comment: If there are no reliable sources, what is the point of keeping this article? You just claimed you couldn't find any reliable sources on the album, which essentially means this article consists almost completely of unverifiable content. When they come out with a tracklist, recreate the article. Until then, it should be deleted, or at best redirected to Selena Gomez. POKERdance ^talk/contribs 19:08, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (directed at Pokerdance):Now you can't delete it I couldn't find anything about a tracklist but I did manage to find a video review/review on E! Online with Marc Malkin. He did a review with Selena Gomez who said she was coming out with the album. So ask yourself is this reliable enough and can I take down the nomaination for deletion. Here's the review article. I will put the reference somewhere on the article page for you to look at. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sprite7868 (talk • contribs) 01:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Existence ≠ notability. The album is not notable per WP:NALBUM and is not worthy of an article, until a track listing comes out or it suddenly receives massive coverage which would cause it to meet the WP:GNG. Also, AfD tags can not be removed until the discussion is over. POKERdance ^talk/contribs 01:28, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Fails WP:CRYSTAL, WP:HAMMER and WP:SLOBBERINGFANBOY. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:59, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect as it seems like that the album will come out in september but until then there doesnt seem like enough information and credible sources to keep the article open. Plus Selena Gomez is yet to be come a notable artist. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 16:14, 14 August 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Comment: The problem here is that the album is not notable. Gomez established notability as both an actress and singer quite awhile ago. I don't understand your crazy terms of what makes a musician notable (you claim that Heidi Montag, who receives massive coverage and has released at least one charting single), but perhaps you should take a look at WP:BAND. Gomez already passes on the point that she has at least one charting single. However, that's not the point here. I just wanted to let you know the major difference between your belief of what establishes a musician's notability, and Wikipedia's, since this also seems to be an issue here. POKERdance ^talk/contribs 18:36, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect - to Selena Gomez. Reading WP:CRYSTAL and WP:NALBUMS sums it up for me. We can always recreate the article once the album is charted and/or a single is charted. Alfred Lau (talk) 15:22, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.