Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kilimanjaro (song)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. So Why 13:22, 29 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Kilimanjaro (song)[edit]

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As per WP:NSONGS. Information from this may be transferred to Enthiran (soundtrack). Kailash29792 (talk) 06:17, 7 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 07:01, 7 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as the song has received numerous awards, therefore it should satisfy WP:NSONG #2. Hzh (talk) 11:32, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 09:29, 14 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete for subject obviously failing the relevant criteria of notability. The criterion #2 in WP:NSONG states that the song muct have won one or more significant awards or honors, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammis award. None of that has happened, per sources cited. -The Gnome (talk) 17:26, 25 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The awards won by the song would the equivalent of major awards for the language of the song concerned (example given is the Grammis, the equivalent for Swedish songs), therefore satisfies NSONG#2. Hzh (talk) 08:20, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings. I'd be honestly glad if you or anyone else could direct me to a Wikipedia policy that considers as equivalent one of the awards specifically named in WP:NSONG with any one the awards won by the contested subject. Or, at the very least, some Wikireliable sources that claim such equivalence. Take care. -The Gnome (talk) 05:25, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The honour of India's equivalent for the Grammys may go to Filmfare. Although this song may have received a Filmfare nomination for its singer, it is best kept within the soundtrack article to help the latter's expansion. Kailash29792 (talk) 05:58, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would have thought the name Filmfare Awards should indicate it is an award for films, therefore its equivalent would be the Oscars, not Grammy. Hzh (talk) 18:15, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In so many words, WP:NSONG still not met. -The Gnome (talk) 12:56, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You'd find that topping the chart [1], winning awards, and multiple sources [2][3][4] would fit a number of criteria of NSONG. Hzh (talk) 18:34, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Were I to look into the source you provided, Hzh, I'd find that the subject song has not been "topping the charts" but "ruling the charts," which, of course, is but another promotional term used by agents, fans, and other involved parties to big up the success of a song. Perhaps the contested song topped the charts, indeed; we need clearer reporting than such jargon.

As to the sources you cited, I do not see what they have to do with anything: The subject still fails WP:NSONG. You might believe there's something wrong, e.g. cultural bias, with the WP:NSONG policy, but we decide on the basis of policy and not personal viewpoints.

P.S. Not that the sources you cited amount to anything: The first and the second use almost identical wording (e.g. "Chinmayi, who sang the duet along with Javed Ali, said she was initially apprehensive as she did not know if her voice would be retained," etc), the result no doubt of the promotional efforts by the singer's camp. Kudos for that, folks, but no Wikipedia cigar. And the third source is a book about Tamil cinema where the song is name-dropped once among the other songs in the Enthiran movie. -The Gnome (talk) 13:19, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to argue that ruling the chart does not mean topping the chart, then please note that charting by itself can be notable. The other sources do concur that the song was a popular song, in addition to the awards won. Hzh (talk) 13:25, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hzh, the book Pride of Tamil Cinema, to an extent, is a case of WP:Circular, hence it fails WP:RS. Kailash29792 (talk) 13:30, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea what you mean by WP:Circular, can you show how it copied from Wikipedia? And can you address the question of the awards? Hzh (talk) 13:39, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hzh, see here. This happened after usage of the book was discouraged during the failed FAC of Mullum Malarum (its status as a circular book was discovered during the FAC, not before). Now getting back to the delete discussion, I still am not in favour of the Kilimanjaro song having a separate article as it violates WP:CONTENTFORK. All its content is best used at Enthiran (soundtrack) as that can help expand the soundtrack article and prevent its merger with the parent article. Kailash29792 (talk) 13:56, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It is not WP:CONTENTFORK when it deals with a different topic and passes criteria for WP:NSONG for having charted and won major awards. Hzh (talk) 14:18, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Hzh, I will certainly argue that "ruling the chart does not mean topping the chart." Not the first time I come across promo fluff and managerial euphemisms. As to your "charting by itself can be notable," then you must think a song that breaks the Top 100 at the bottom slot has "charted" and is, thus, notable. Well, I disagree. -The Gnome (talk) 20:19, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it is reasonable to suggest that a reporter on the Times of India (which by the way gives Top 20 music charts since 2010) would consider breaking the top 100 as ruling the chart. The journalists at the newspaper should know what is on their music charts. Hzh (talk) 20:33, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.