Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Keysha freshh

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Per the cogent reasoning of Bearcat. Randykitty (talk) 10:54, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keysha freshh[edit]

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Fails WP:MUSICBIO. I can find no reliable sources that would establish notability. Seems like a promo piece, but I think it falls right outside of the G11 scope. Ish dar ian 05:20, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As per guild-lines Under WP:MUSICBIO at least only ONE of the criteria must be met:

Works from this artist can be found on notable music distribution sites such as Amazon and iTunes. http://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-Fresh-feat-Dougie/dp/B0037P0CLC https://itunes.apple.com/ca/album/hollywood-fresh-feat.-dougie/id355222015

and notable publications such as (non of which are: self-published, and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself) / http://allunsigned.com/keysha-freshh-keyshato-vanity/ http://www.thecaribbeancamera.com/entertainment/5439-keysha-1 https://djmelboogie.wordpress.com/tag/keysha-fresh/ http://www.thecaribbeancamera.com/entertainment/5570-keysha-2 http://elbo.ws/post/2514507/hollywood-fresh-introducing-new-toronto-artist-keysha/ http://www.rapdict.org/Keysha http://bigmouthsonline.com/introducing-keysha-canadas-newest-up-and-coming-female-artist-videobio/ http://chrynews.wordpress.com/tag/keysha-freshh/ http://urbanologymag.com/um/keysha-freshh-coolin/ http://www.rapdict.org/Keysha http://www.cityonmyback.com/?s=keysha

11) Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network: This artist (as mentioned in bio) as been in rotation on major radio stations including, Flow 93.5 in Toronto, http://tunein.com/radio/BoomFM-941-s202795/. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JaniceRse (talk • contribs) 05:49, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WP:MUSICBIO says nothing about music distribution such as amazon or iTunes. None of the listed publications appear to be notable and any mention in a publication needs to be beyond trivial, i.e. not just listed by name. The final point is debateable concerning national. It would need an actual source. So far this fails WP:MUSICBIO. freshacconci talk to me 20:13, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 14:37, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The operative word in #11 is network, which the stations you listed aren't. The only five radio services in Canada that can ever satisfy criterion #11 by themselves are all listed at CBC Radio, in fact — and even if the stations you listed did satisfy the criterion, which they don't, you haven't provided any sources by which we can verify whether, or how heavily, any of them actually playlisted her. Bearcat (talk) 08:45, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 14:37, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Having music available for sale on Amazon or iTunes, or anywhere else for that matter, does not confer notability per WP:MUSICBIO. I cannot confirm that any of the links posted in support by User:JaniceRse qualify as significant coverage in reliable third-party sources: AllUnsigned posts press releases (and says so on their About page), the first Caribbean Camera link is unavailable (even on the Wayback Machine) and the second (also offline, but archived) only includes her name in a list of players at a "celebrity basketball" event for charity and says nothing of substance about her, djmelboogie.wordpress.com is a DJ's personal blog, elbo.ws is unavailable and unarchived, Rapdict is a publicly editable wiki, bigmouthsonline.com appears to be occupied by a domain squatter (and that page is not archived) but the description on their Twitter calls it a "blog company for interviews", UrbanologyMag is down for repairs (I'll check back in a couple of days when they're supposed to be back up), and CityOnMyBack appears to be a promotional blog mostly consisting of YouTube videos and press releases. I haven't listened to the CHRY News clip yet, but since that is an Ontario radio station that would only show local coverage anyway. The references on the article itself are her own site, a reposted press release (the same one also posted on AllUnsigned, it looks like), the Rapdict wiki, an MTV artist page (these are submitted by the artists themselves or their PR people) which has no bio and just links tracks to buy, and a page that doesn't mention her at all but appears to be a DJ booking site. WP:MUSICBIO#11 is about being placed in rotation by a radio network, not a single station. — Gwalla | Talk 20:23, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Correction

Absolutely agreed, as I am PR for the artist I should have posted updated links our apologies on that negligence.

STATION NETWORKS that have had this artist in rotation: Bell Media (Which owned and operated Flow 93.5 at the time, and Virgin radio 99.9, Top 2 urban stations in Toronto playing hip-hop music) Blue Ant Media (Which operates AUX TV where the artist Music video was on rotation)

Being owned by a media conglomerate does not make a radio station a network. Radio networks air a programming schedule that's predominantly or entirely common to all stations in the network, and CBC Radio's services are the only ones in Canada which meet that criterion (the sports networks being irrelevant to NMUSIC.) Neither Flow 93.5 nor Virgin 99.9 is "networked" with any other station — sharing ownership with another station that has no common programming is not the same thing as being a network. And even if Flow or Virgin did count, you haven't provided any sources by which we can verify that she got playlisted on either of them (or on Aux.) Bearcat (talk) 08:55, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Articles posted about artist that are neither: non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself:

-Artist covering "Share News": "One of Canada’s largest and most influential ethnic newspapers and by far the largest one serving the Black and Caribbean community in Toronto" - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KeyshaShare.jpg

-Artist covering "Pride" newspaper: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2index.jpg

As these were published before these news companies integrated to an online format the articles are not available, however I have just contacted both and will have versions of both articles made available for further examination to confirm they fit within the guidelines listed under *WP:MUSICBIO

This is not an artist that you Google and there are suggestions for other artist, as soon as this artist name is entered into web searches, many publications appear solidifying the artist credentials. Allunsigned is a notable publication amongst the hip-hop community, also is http://www.hip-hopvibe.com - which posts the artist's most recent releases but does not "report performance dates, release information or track listings, or the publications of contact and booking details in directories" this is simply a publication that chooses to post the artists' music and give their opinion on the artist and the music. JaniceRse (talk) 22:27, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you're a PR representative for the artist, then per our conflict of interest policy you shouldn't be creating or editing an article about her at all. Wikipedia exists as a venue for neutral information about people who have passed our notability criteria, not as a venue for anybody to extend their own marketing campaigns. Bearcat (talk) 08:45, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing in this article as written passes WP:NMUSIC, and the sourcing that's been provided so far, either in the article or in this discussion, is purely promotional — not one shred of properly reliable source coverage has actually been provided so far. What JaniceRse is missing is the part of NMUSIC where it specifies that regardless of how many items on the notability checklist an article claims that the subject meets, it's not the assertion that gets her past NMUSIC, but the quality of the sourcing that can be provided to verify the assertion. If you have to rely on marketing/promotional materials to "source" the assertion, and cannot cite coverage in reliable independent sources which supports the claims, then the criterion has not been passed — precisely because marketing/promotional/PR teams tend to inflate claims of notability well beyond the actual reality (e.g. it got played one time on one radio station = it's a worldwide smash megahit!), no musician ever gets over an NMUSIC criterion until the claim that she gets over an NMUSIC criterion is properly sourced. And merely reposting a copy of the newspaper's cover to Commons does not satisfy our inclusion rules, either. And I already noted both the conflict of interest rule, and the reasons why it exists, that if you're her PR agent then you have exactly no business going anywhere near a Wikipedia article about her at all. Delete, without prejudice against recreation, by somebody independent of her marketing team, in the future if and when, and only if and when, she can actually be properly sourced as having passed one or more of the NMUSIC criteria. Bearcat (talk) 08:45, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.