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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete as he fails WP:ATHLETE and one featured article does not constitute significant coverage (per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/White Ensign F.C.). пﮟოьεԻ 57 13:46, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kevin Reiman[edit]

Kevin Reiman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Kevin Reiman was originally nominated for deletion as part of a bundle under Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Doug Lascody. The debate was closed under snow, and after checking with the closing admin it was clarified as a snow for relisting them separately. [1] I'm going through them to see which ought to be deleted, and Kevin fits the bill of not passing either WP:Athlete, as he's never appeared for RSL, or WP:Bio, as the only non trivial coverage is one piece in a local paper. At first glance, the article is well sourced, but many of the citations are from student newspapers or club profiles. That leaves four sources. He's listed in an ESPN piece in 2004 as one of 7 players who are exciting recruits for Maryland that year. Since they list 5ish recruits from each of the 25 schools, his name is literally one of over 100: not significant coverage. The Salt Lake Tribune mention is trivial as well: it just includes him in an infobox of the thirteen new players RSL has acquired in between seasons.[2] The Deseret News mention is also trivial, listing him as one of three boys hoping to defy the odds of actually playing in the MLS even though they weren't picked till the supplemental draft.[3] The Journal News piece is, however, a feature on him and how he hopes to play in the MLS.[4]. That said, I don't think one piece in a local paper is enough to pass WP:Bio, and he clearly fails WP:Athlete. So, I'm relisting him, and I say Delete. Vickser (talk) 22:47, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where are you getting that? Real Salt Lake says he has 0 appearances, and being signed to a club doesn't meet WP:Athlete. Vickser (talk) 02:57, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I wasn unclear. As an unused substitute. However, unlike some leagues, where this is done simply to meet some odd quota, this is real in MLS, and means he isn't just playing in the reserves. I don't see any point in deleting articles for real professional players who appear in match reports of a Tier 1 team. Nfitz (talk) 04:13, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But being listed as a substitute doesn't confer notability per WP:Athlete since he's never actually made an appearance. Since he doesn't meet that, how is he article worthy? Think about it this way: if he does nothing more that what he's done now, would he be notable enough to have an article? Do you really think just sitting on a bench and never playing for a pro team is an achvievement that's encylopedic? Vickser (talk) 19:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Nfitz - incidentally I feel like if we all consolidated the time we spent debating these rather pointless AfDs into expanding footballers' articles, Wikipedia would be the better for it. ugen64 (talk) 18:40, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, absolutely zero grounds for deletion as he meets WP:BIO. Also, The Journal News is not a local paper, is is a major publication from the Gannett Company. MrPrada (talk) 23:18, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not trying to say the Journal News is a bad paper, but it certainly is local. It serves three counties of the northern NYC suburbs. While I might be able to find a copy in manhattan, I never saw one in all the years I lived there. I highly doubt I'd be able to get a copy in Chicago or Washington DC. How does he pass WP:Bio? He doesn't meet the athlete criterion, and to make a case for general Bio to apply, he'd need more significant coverage than one story in a local paper. Vickser (talk) 17:20, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The New York State Press Association gives awards based on circulation, and its in the same category as the Post, Times, and Daily News, so they're either all local papers, or they aren't. WP:Athlete is quite vague, by that standard we'd never include minor league baseball players, first round draft picks, etc. He meets WP:BIO from the coverage across multiple sources, there are other nontrivial mentions in various google news archive searches available. MrPrada (talk) 23:44, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Just to clarify, the New York Times has a daily circulation over a million, the NYPost and NYDaily News are both over 700k. That puts them at #3, #5, and #6 in the country respectively. Journal News is at #80 with circulation north of 120k. Source Again, I'm not saying they're a bad paper, or not a reliable source, but they're not major enough that someone who has one feature in the Journal News and no other significant coverage meets WP:Bio.
More importantly, though, what are these other significant mentions in google news archives? I don't want to wrongfully delete people anymore than you do, but I searched the google news archives (along with google in general) and pretty much all I found was trivial mentions in college stuff. If there's significant coverage from multiple reliable sources, I'll want to keep him because that'll be the right thing to do. But I haven't found that to be true.
And we don't include minor league baseball players unless they play in a fully professional league. A #1 draft pick will probably have enough significant coverage to pass WP:Bio, but general agreement is that just being drafted or signed is not enough to merit inclusion. And let's keep in mind that this guy isn't a first round draft pick. He didn't get picked until the third round of the MLS Supplemental Draft, which doesn't start till after the 4 rounds of the MLS SuperDraft. Vickser (talk) 01:21, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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