Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kelli Stavast (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Withdrawn. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 02:15, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kelli Stavast[edit]

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Renominating this non-notable motorsports pit reporter after the last AfD was closed with no prejudice as to speedy renom. There is no WP:SIGCOV in any reliable/independent sources, as pointed out in this source assessment table made by User:Beccaynr in the last AfD below:

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table:
NASCAR Pit Reporter Kelli Stavast Shares Sunset Proposal Story, “Timeless” Ring Details (The Knot, 2016)	~ Based primarily on statements of the subject, WP:SECONDARY context introduces the subject and commentary is limited to anticipation of the wedding.	Terms of use includes "THE SERVICES ARE PROVIDED FOR ENTERTAINMENT, EDUCATIONAL, AND PROMOTIONAL PURPOSES ONLY." This is not a journalistic or academic source.	~ Based primarily on statements of the subject, WP:SECONDARY context introduces the subject and commentary is limited to anticipation of the wedding.	✘ No
Marty Snider, Kelli Stavast added to NBC's NASCAR on-air team (NBCSports, 2014)	This is a press release from the employer of the subject		~ 2 sentences about her past career in addition to the announcement.	✘ No
The Life of a Racing Pit Reporter: Kelli Stavast (Frontstretch, 2019)	A mix of interview and WP:SECONDARY context	About Us section of the website indicates a news structure exists.	~ A mix of interview and WP:SECONDARY context, with commentary that appears related to pit reporting generally, not the subject.	~ Partial
Kelli Stavast ’02 Takes on Olympic Assignment for NBC (Chapman University, 2018)	Alumni magazine interview with alumni		~ Mostly based on quotes from the subject.	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

As will likely be pointed out, this subject was in the news recently in regards to a recent forced "meme"; none of the sources covering that meme describe this subject in any detail; they at best pull information from the sources that already exist. As User:Beccaynr also said in the last AfD,"Wikipedia is not a newspaper and not a tabloid, particularly for a WP:MINORASPECT of a subject's career." Fails WP:JOURNALIST and WP:GNG. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 19:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 19:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 19:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Motorsport-related deletion discussions. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 19:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Colorado-related deletion discussions. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 19:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As I argued in the original AfD, there is significant coverage of Stavast, including a Heavy piece, this article, and this significant piece. Clearly meets GNG. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 00:30, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a way for me to view the Altdriver link without purchasing a VPN subscription or finding a sketchy free proxy? They appear to block "international traffic" :(. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 00:46, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"The speedwaydigest.com source is labeled "NBC Sports PR" and appears to be a press release. Heavy.com recycles the Frontstretch source already in the Wikipedia article, adds a non-independent link and information from her employer, her Instagram, various references to past "Fuck Joe Biden" chants, and a link and information from her alumni magazine - this is churnalism, and the reliance on the same and similar sources that do not sufficiently support WP:BASIC as outlined above, similarly does not add further support for notability." - This was a reply to your !vote on the last AfD that I feel is worth bringing up. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 02:48, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

and Altdriver's About page states, "alt_driver features the most entertaining and shareable car content from social media and the web. We look at literally thousands of videos and choose only the best to share. Keep in touch with us all over the web and social media to get in on the action", followed by a list of social media links, and links to a contact page, Visitor Agreement, and Privacy Policy. The Visitor Agreement specifically disclaims accuracy, e.g. "We do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy of any posting or Materials, regardless of whether they come from a user, a celebrity or ?expert? guest, or from a member of our staff", so this does not appear to be a reliable source that can contribute to notability per Wikipedia guidelines. Beccaynr (talk) 02:57, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, per the two sources identified by Editorofthewiki. Banana Republic (talk) 02:30, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This feverish (repeated) AfD effort is dead in the water, over a year late, and an absurd waste of time and effort, especially in light of recent media coverage, only bringing the subject substantial additional notoriety. - JGabbard (talk) 02:37, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per last rationale I had, that this is an average sports journalist's article with proper sourcing, outside the controversy I asked for protection on that she was merely parallel to and meant only to stop bringing attention from a crowd. As the discussion was quickly derailed away from the subject and towards other things not having to do with her, I ask that the focus of that AfD remain solely on the subject in this discussion, not anything else (and won't respond to those outside concerns; please don't ping me about them, as they'll be ignored). Nate • (chatter) 03:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There do not appear to be reliable sources about what her intent was - as discussed in the previous AfD, based on my review of sources, it appears that her intent in the recent event is a matter of gossip/speculation, and tends to be reported in a way that disparages her, and therefore does not appear suitable for inclusion per WP:BLP policy and similarly does not support her notability. Beccaynr (talk) 04:18, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment That much I agree with, the sources for the event are lousy and on par for writers who don't actually follow the sport and only watched the clip after the fact (and in fact I put the blame more on a BTS director who didn't cut away or blank out the audio right away, leaving her in the wind). But going by the standards of how we measure the articles of sports journalists, she slides by on a weak keep per my past experience if that incident never happened. But I will admit my bias in my subject area (media/television) is a bit heavy towards inclusionism. Nate • (chatter) 04:39, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, for all reasons given by people in the first nomination. TuckerResearch (talk) 12:45, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, as per above -- this article goes beyond typical stub type articles for sports journalists. This article was created prior to recent events, and effectively has not significantly changed since then. TiggerJay (talk) 18:10, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ironically Kelli has historically greater page views compared to Brandon Brown prior to the newsworthy instance. TiggerJay (talk) 19:28, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore I seriously doubt the innocent claim this being simply about remove a non-notable broadcaster, but rather just a complete red herring regarding the greater topic of Let's Go Brandon. The other broadcasters linked to Kelli have not been subject to AfD by the nom, while having far less page views, Google Trends and references. TiggerJay (talk) 18:13, 28 October 2021 (UTC) (updated: 18:59, 29 October 2021 (UTC))[reply]
False. I put up Dave Burns at the same time as Kelli, Marty Snider and Vince Welch. I also considered one for Massaro, but was able to find additional references during my WP:BEFORE check. [1] GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 20:09, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fair point -- unable to see what isn't there. TiggerJay (talk) 19:00, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ Neutral I have updated the source assessment table below to include sources referenced in this discussion and added to the article since the source assessment table had been developed previously, and there still does not appear to be sufficient support for the WP:BASIC or WP:JOURNALIST notability criteria. Beccaynr (talk) 22:50, 27 October 2021 (UTC) - table updated Beccaynr (talk) 23:47, 27 October 2021 (UTC) - update !vote Beccaynr (talk) 23:53, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table:
NASCAR Pit Reporter Kelli Stavast Shares Sunset Proposal Story, “Timeless” Ring Details (The Knot, 2016)	~ Based primarily on statements of the subject, WP:SECONDARY context introduces the subject and commentary is limited to anticipation of the wedding.	Terms of use includes "THE SERVICES ARE PROVIDED FOR ENTERTAINMENT, EDUCATIONAL, AND PROMOTIONAL PURPOSES ONLY." This is not a journalistic or academic source.	~ Based primarily on statements of the subject, WP:SECONDARY context introduces the subject and commentary is limited to anticipation of the wedding.	✘ No
Marty Snider, Kelli Stavast added to NBC's NASCAR on-air team (NBCSports, 2014)	This is a press release from the employer of the subject		~ 2 sentences about her past career in addition to the announcement.	✘ No
The Life of a Racing Pit Reporter: Kelli Stavast (Frontstretch, 2019)	A mix of interview and WP:SECONDARY context	About Us section of the website indicates a news structure exists.	~ A mix of interview and WP:SECONDARY context, with commentary that appears related to pit reporting generally, not the subject.	~ Partial
Kelli Stavast ’02 Takes on Olympic Assignment for NBC (Chapman University, 2018)	Alumni magazine interview with alumni		~ Mostly based on quotes from the subject.	✘ No
Kelli Stavast: NBC Reporter Behind Let’s Go Brandon Meme (Heavy.com, 2021)	This article recycles the Frontstretch source already in the Wikipedia article, adds a non-independent link and information from her employer, her Instagram, various references to past "Fuck Joe Biden" chants, and a link and information from her alumni magazine - this is churnalism.	WP:RSP "When Heavy.com cites another source for their own article, it is preferable to read and cite the original source instead."		✘ No
Needed: Less Tara, Johnny, more Scott (Chicago Tribune, 2018)			~ In an article that reviews "seven things about NBC’s Winter Olympics coverage", there are three sentences about her interview of Madison Olsen.	~ Partial
Medal Stand: NBC's Stavast Goes For Cheap Emotions In Interview (Sports Business Journal, 2018)	Marked "sponsored content" at the bottom of the post, and otherwise promoting Hershey's and Red Stripe.		~ Two sentences awarding Stavast "tin" while Hershey's is awarded "gold" and Red Stripe gets a "silver".	✘ No
Hamilton: Pit reporter Stavast has one crazy office (Winston Salem-Journal, 2015)			Includes quotes from Stavast, but also in-depth coverage of her career and biography.	✔ Yes
Stavast: What to Know About the NASCAR Pit Reporter (Alt driver, 2021)		The site's Visitor Agreement specifically disclaims accuracy, e.g. "We do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy of any posting or Materials, regardless of whether they come from a user, a celebrity or ?expert? guest, or from a member of our staff", and the site's description on its About page states, "alt_driver features the most entertaining and shareable car content from social media and the web. We look at literally thousands of videos and choose only the best to share."	Career, education, and biographical information	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Keep Same guy nominating the same article a day after the previous nomination ended in no consensus, is just ridiculous! Why not just keep it going another week over there if you thought it'd matter? Wasn't closed by an administrator either. Anyway, the person was notable before this Lets Go Brandon thing, the article created by someone who didn't mention that when they made it. The sources found at [2] and [3] prove she meets the general notability guidelines. Dream Focus 01:06, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above.Best Regards.---✨Lazy Maniik✨ 08:09, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Withdraw for now - Revisit after this meme dies down so people quit thinking I'm some biased partisan. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 22:24, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
cc: 力. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 22:24, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep appears to be notable even excluding the recent event. Elli (talk | contribs) 23:31, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.