Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Katarzyna Dolinska (3rd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:17, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Katarzyna Dolinska[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Katarzyna Dolinska (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Article's subject fails to meet general inclusion criteria and inclusion criteria laid out at WP:Entertainer. Also, subject did not finish in top 3 on ANTM. Previous AfD established only top 3 contestants from each season have notability conferred by participation in ANTM. L0b0t (talk) 16:09, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong Keep being notable having signed many agencies (Elite, Ford, etc.) ApprenticeFan talk contribs 16:19, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment A model engaging in the business of modeling is no more notable than a chef cooking, a teacher teaching, a writer writing, etc. Doing one's job does not make one notable; being recognized as superlative in one's field does. L0b0t (talk) 16:36, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I know she's a working model, but does a model getting work automatically become notable? Yes, there's the whole America's Next Top Model aspect of it as well, but she didn't win or finish high (wasn't she 5th in her cycle or something?), nor has she done anything notable as an entertainer/personality since her appearance. I really don't believe that she meets WP:N; she has not received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. I mean, if you take out the fansite galleries (which are an obvious copy-vio, but we'll ignore that for now) and her modelling agencies, you're left with links to magazines. There are no articles, no interviews, no news reports, no nothing. Honestly, most of these "sources" would not pass WP:RS. I understand that she's a fan favourite, but honestly, there are major general notability and sourcing issues. SKS2K6 (talk) 16:40, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Misty Willows (talk · contribs) was decided to do the Katarzyna Dolinska article and Misty is interested in America's Next Top Model.

There are some references or sources in her modeling work:

ApprenticeFan talk contribs 16:43, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Those sources aren't independent of the subject; the first two are profiles on her agencies' websites, and the last one is a fashion model directly. SKS2K6 (talk) 16:49, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: that just means the article still needs to be improved, with better sources. ... MistyWillows talk 17:18, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: there was an article about her in New York Magazine's The Cut. http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2009/03/antm_rejects_book_internationa.html --Carrieunderwoodfan (talk) 19:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep Ranking on ANTM should not matter, a person is no more notable for being on the show is they rank 3rd than 5th. As a model, Katarzyna has a much higher notability than most other Top Model contestants, who articles, including some of the winners. She certainly is more notable than Heather Kuzmich, who also ranked 5th, but was voted over whelmingly to keep. If Katarzyna doesn't meet WP:N, than only Adrianne Curry, Kim Stolz and maybe 2 or 3 others do. ... MistyWillows talk 17:18, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The reason the article on Heather Kuzmich was kept was because of her notability re: her Asperger's Syndrome and received coverage for it, including an article in the New York Times and coverage in People magazine. Katarzyna, on the other hand, doesn't meet the basic criteria listed on WP:BIO. SKS2K6 (talk) 18:07, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Heather's Asperger's is basicly triva, she hasn't become a national spokesperson for Asperger's syndrome; the Artlces in NYT and People, are just human interest stories that only exist because she was on the show. Kat also was in US News and World Report, and did several TV interviews after the show, those certainly match the notability of Heather's NYT and People refs. And being a model who graduated from an Ivy League College, is at least as noteworthy as being a model with Asperger's syndrome. ... MistyWillows talk 19:15, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I can see why it can be argued as trivial, but there's no arguing that regardless, she did receive national coverage on the issue, and that was repeatedly brought up in her AfD. She was a reality show contestant that has a somewhat unknown disability that made her notable enough to warrant independent coverage. Kat, on the other hand, was just another reality show contestant, so she's not notable under WP:ENTERTAINER. As a model, she hasn't done anything outside of typical model campaigns — she hasn't had any national advertisements, nor was she a "face" or muse for a certain designer or company, nor has she received coverage as a notable model (for example, a fashion magazine like Vogue calling her a face to watch, or something to that effect). And how is being model who graduated from an Ivy League school notable? It's an interesting fact, and perhaps it's rare, but I don't see how that automatically makes her pass WP:N. SKS2K6 (talk) 19:25, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
She can be considered the "face" of Gerlan Jeans --Carrieunderwoodfan (talk) 22:05, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep There are good sources and she is a fairly successful model. If her article is deleted Anya Rozova, Dominique Reighard, Fatima Siad, as well as most non-winners of the show's articles should be deleted. --Carrieunderwoodfan (talk) 18:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. -- I'mperator 20:08, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Will those who are opining to keep please provide evidence that subject passes the general notability standards and the notability standards for models? Again, a model working her little butt off as a model is in no way notable, she did not finish in top 3 on ANTM so that show confers no notability to this model. To the above poster, if there are other model articles where the subjects do not pass muster with our criteria then those articles need to be deleted as well. L0b0t (talk) 16:58, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Yet I don't see you putting AfD on those pages, why are you singling out Katarzyna, (as you have done since last year)? this is an unfair and arbitrary application of standards. Also you keep harping on Top 3, I really don't see any reason for top 3 to make a difference. As for Evidence Katarzyna passes WP:ENTERTAINER, if what we have isn't enough, then I can't find a way to justify ANY reality TV personality under WP:ENTERTAINER. So are you ready fairly and equally apply the standards and AfD all of them? ... MistyWillows talk 23:24, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well, in an AfD last year it was decided that only the top 3 contestants on ANTM had enough notability conferred by the game-show to warrant discrete articles, consequently all of the also rans had their articles deleted and changed into redirects for the appropriate season of ANTM. I'm unclear as to what you are referring when you claim "...singling out Katarzyna, (as you have done since last year)" but I will ask you to assume good faith and concentrate on content not contributors. To be frank, I can find very little to justify the inclusion of any game-show contestant and I will happily nominate their articles for deletion when I come across them. Beyond that you might want to check out WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. Cheers. ````
Comment Should L0b0t (talk · contribs) blocked for editing to deciding for delete an article of ANTM contestants. I should request it at notice to the admins. ApprenticeFan talk contribs 09:49, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've left ApprenticeFan a note on his talk page about inappropriate behavior. PhilKnight (talk) 14:10, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That is exactly what happens in the event of a delete. That is just what we did last year with all but the 3 finalists in each series of the game-show. L0b0t (talk) 00:12, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment if Katarzyna was a fictional character, and America's Next top Model was scripted drama, would anyone be complaining that she wasn't notable enough? Shouldn't real people be considered more notable than minor TV characters of equal exposure? ... MistyWillows talk 00:41, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Of course they would be AfD'd; articles about fictional subjects are deleted all the time. Many of the "List of characters in X" articles came about as result of deleting individual character articles. L0b0t (talk) 01:05, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe we should do that with all ANTM contestants, who's pages have been deleted. Recover the info, and make one page with all of them. ... MistyWillows talk 01:16, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep- Notability outside of the show is shown in the article. Umbralcorax (talk) 03:08, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Except that notability is not demonstrated in the article. Please show how subject passes muster with the general notability requirements and notability requirements for models. L0b0t (talk) 15:50, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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