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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. v/r - TP 01:54, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jyotikalash

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Jyotikalash (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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non notable neologism. Prod declined without explanation by the same ip who restored this lovely piece of fluff [1] Jac16888 Talk 18:03, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 14:56, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 14:56, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This is not an encyclopedia article but an essay on a Hindu or Sanskrit word or maybe name. The essay doesn't even explain what the word means ("light pot" doesn't really help), and I didn't manage to find out elsewhere. Delete without prejudice against recreation as a proper article in case someone knows more and wants to impart actual information about the topic. At that point we can still examine notability. Hans Adler 16:16, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - I am no wiser after reading this article. Is this about a Hindi word? Wikipedia is not a dictionary. If it's about something else, I cannot fathom what it may be. -- Whpq (talk) 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - ~Laughs~ I am really stunned by the ingenuity of the Indians (pats himself) who are using the lack of familiarity of the westerners regarding Hindi to create an article about a so-called "Stress-remover and success provider website".Firstly it reeks of WP:PEACOCK.Secondly Jyoti-->means "Light"(of maybe knowledge or good action) & Kalash-->means "Pot".Now the point is that ancient sages/Rishi/ऋषि had dedicated their lives in the search for ultimate knowledge,for which they traveled and meditated in the harsh sub-zero weather of the Himalayas(I dont have reliable source for this).Thus they were objects of general awe.These sages also carried a pot (of clay or metal) to carry water(for what I dont know).Now whenever a disciple bowed in front of them ,as a mark of blessing they used to sprinkle water from this pot on them.People assumed that this water enlightened them, brought peace to their life.This water is also known as "Shanti Jal" /(water of peace).It is from here the whole concept of neo-something and jyoti-kalash came into being.
    Now coming back to the article.This article is actually for a website of the same name and the main subtle need of this article is advertising.For me the lack of sources lead to failure of WP:VERIFY and particularly this article fails WP:GNG.P.S:Sorry for my long explanation ,but I just love drama. Vivekananda De--tAlK 10:31, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep : I have done major edits to page. Removed copyright text. Added cat. Please note that there is a Category:Given names by culture [2] and I have added Cat Category:Hindu given names accordingly to the article. So notability issue does not arise. Please see the article again to change your opinion.Jethwarp (talk) 04:35, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I still dont get it.If major edits has been done then what are these two references still doing there
  1. Name Jyoti Kalash
  2. Significance of name jyotikalash.net

Both these link to a website which claims to remove "stress and provide success" . Secondly,I beg to differ on the matter of notability regarding names.One of my arguments would be by picking up an archived debate -->Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Laimnesis (name) which says "No evidence that this name is borne by anybody notable" as a reason for deletion by the nominator.Similarly, my argument here would be we do not have any notable person having this name /surname.Thus there is no need for this article.If in the future somebody notable do come up then new article could be made.But, as the saying goes WP is not a crystal ball.If comparison is to be drawn then I would say Sunil and Parag as the examples for inclusion of names. There are two things that may assert notability for the same :-

  1. Line 1-->"Hindus light oil lamps near Kalasha for nine days in reverence to Durga. These are also known as Jyoti-Kalash"--This reference can be added to Navaratri
  2. Line 2-->"A song Jyoti Kalash Chhalke sung by Lata Mangeshkar in 1961 Hindi movie Bhabhi ki Chudiyan"--This can be added to the list of songs sung by Lata Mangeshkar.

Thus there is no need for a separate article. I will also say that other stuff also exist! Vivekananda De--tAlK 05:41, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment : rmvd external link. The link are given to cite that Jyotikalash comes from words jyoti & kalash. There is no mention of stress in article. It is a Sanskrit word and has other religious significance and meanings in religious rites of Hindus apart from being a name. I am surprised that you being from India are making such comments. You should be very much aware what at least a kalasha is!!! You have given a fine explanation earlier (above) what a jyotikalash is shanti jal (water of peace). Now when I have added ref explaining what a jyoti-kalash is you want to argue against it.Jethwarp (talk) 08:48, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply: Firstly,I will take this "you being from India are making such comments" as a compliment and as a mark of my neutrality.I never mentioned the word stress in the article.I said the linked website says such words.I am also not refuting that "religious significance and meanings in religious rites" of the word.I am only saying that there is no need for a separate article.The significance of the word can be kept consolidated by adding separate sections / edits to Navaratri and Lata Mangeshkar,as I have said in my previous argument.But in between all these you did not mention so as to why you are adding this article to Hindu given names and why this particular article can have a stand alone status.The particular religious significance can be added to Navaratri and thus there is no need for a separate article.Now, your link says it all.The term Jyoti Kalash has the greatest significance in the puja or during the Navaratri.As an extension to previous argument regarding-->Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Laimnesis (name) I add that the "Laimnesis (name)" is "they are historical names dating back to pre-Christian times" and yet they are non-notable just because there is "No evidence that this name is borne by anybody notable".Let us only think about WP guidelines regarding this discussion and not think about other things.See the problem regarding hindu scriptures is the ability of anybody to interpret in his/her own terms.My earlier argument is just an argument and my own opinion just because I do not have any reliable source for it.Moreover please note I have not refuted anything that you have said.I am just saying it does not need a separate article .Thats all!!!Vivekananda De--tAlK 09:43, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment that is why I have added another Category : Sanskrit words and pharses and given explanation what a jyoti-kalash means in hindu religion, which has a great scope for expansion over the time. As for the name Jyoti Kalash can be found in google book search.Jethwarp (talk) 09:56, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment :Can you please add those google book search results to this article.I am oblivious to the "great scope for expansion" argument.You are shifting from "name" (as in name Jyoti Kalash can be found in google book search) to "Sanskrit Word" argument.In which way do you want to keep this article?Cite the relevant guideline. Vivekananda De--tAlK 10:10, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment : It is not for me to decide how I want to keep the article. I am neither the creator of the original page nor do I own it. This is a debate going on if the article is worth keeping on Wiki and the votes and the closing Admin will decide the fate of article, after looking in to the status of article.Jethwarp (talk) 11:08, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply: Good quality references, I must say.Lets quote the lines which talk about "Jyoti Kalash" from every source .
  1. Name Jyoti Kalash:Links to a website whose other pages claim to remove stress and so on.Thus for me its still spammy and not a reliable source.
  2. Akhand Manokaamna Navratra Jyoti Kalash:Navratras are the major festive occasions for Shri Mahamaya Devi Mandir. Navratras are observed twice every year, a period of nine days each......Special lamps called Kalash are lit in big halls surrounding the Mandir in the name of devotees. These Kalashas are kept akhand
  3. Adbhar Ashtbhuji Temple : This is an ancient temple of Goddess Devi with eight hands. The Jyoti Kalash are lit here on Navaratri: The Jyoti Kalash are lit here on Navaratri.
  4. Shitala Mandir:Its an image and not technically a source.
  5. Jyoti Kalash are lighted here on the occasion of Navratri:Jyoti Kalash are lighted here on the occasion of Navratri.
  6. Jyoti kalash chalke : One of the most outstanding songs sung by Lata Mangeshkar, this must go down as a very special song in her career as well as in the annals of Bollywood filmy music:Already described in my previous argument.

Now,4 out of 6 sources say "Jyoti Kalash" in the same breath as "Navaratri" and thus it simply supports my argument that there is no need for a separate article.It is a great addition to Navaratri.The same thing applies to Lata Mangeshkar song.Thus there is no need for a separate article.I will again say "In which way do you want to keep this article?Cite the relevant guideline",because I am asking the guideline for your argument.P.S:There was a talk about "the name Jyoti Kalash can be found in google book search",I still dont see any google reference. Vivekananda De--tAlK 12:01, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reply : This is my last comment on this matter, as this is not a talk page. Let the Admin & other Wiki editors decide the outcome of debate. You have already covered a large section of AfD putting arguments like a lawyer putting forward your POV. Jethwarp (talk) 15:26, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep : The article passes WP:N. Also explains its meaning and use as a name and in culture. Links to photos also help to understand what is a Jyotikalash to a person not familiar with Indian culture. Hardyraj (talk) 15:43, 24 November 2011 (UTC) User blocked as sock of Jethwarp –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:54, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE:This AfD contains comments from users who are undergoing Sockpuppetry Investigations.See this for further use-->Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jethwarp.I have requested the above investigation and if required my comments can also be not considered if it leads to conflict of interest or leads to the question of neutrality of my comments. Vivekananda De--tAlK 04:14, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, causa sui (talk) 17:44, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Wouldn't it be nice to have reliable, relevant sources for this? But we don't. Alessandra Napolitano (talk) 22:10, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I find Vivekananda De's comments convincing. There are really no references supporting any notability of "Jyotikalash" as a given name. They are mostly references to the Navaratri lamps of the same name, but that is an irrelevant context - that should be covered in Navaratri. And there's the words of one song, which are best covered elsewhere. To support an article about a given name, what we need is sources supporting its notability as a given name, not its use in different contexts -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:40, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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