Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Justin Casse

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Black Kite (talk) 19:31, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Justin Casse[edit]

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This article has been bugging me for weeks; we have no criteria at NHORSERACING that covers assessment of notability of the bloodstock agents (basically, they are skilled horsemen familiar with the market who advise others on racehorses to purchase), and this just feels like a purely promotional piece to me. I am not entirely sure it meets GNG, though if the consensus is that this individual is notable, I'm willing to reconsider this nomination and withdraw it. But it feels very commercial in tone, so I need other eyes than mine to look at the notability issue. Montanabw^(talk) 07:36, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Horse racing-related deletion discussions. PaleoNeonate (talk) 19:56, 25 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ Keep - The creator seems to have been a single purpose account which was invited to also join the horse racing Wikiproject but was not involved on other articles there, was unreponsive to article talk page notifications to provide reliable sources to show notability. This leaves little possibility for others to improve the article or contest the lack of notability. PaleoNeonate (talk) 11:15, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I left another message on the user's talk page, making sure to ping, in case. PaleoNeonate (talk) 11:25, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I changed my vote to keep, as the creator is still responsive and working on the article. If necessary, it's always possible to nominate again in the future. PaleoNeonate (talk) 02:12, 24 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I appreciate the input and thought I put in enough sources to provide notability. I am open to suggestions and edits....especially so it does not sound like its "promotional". There are 15 different sources from 13 different authors, i thought that was enough. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. :( Im open ears!! Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ladyngetal (talk • contribs) 17:04, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I put in an explanation at my talkpage, but in short, it’s the quality of the sources, not the quantity; while TDN, Daily Racing Form and Blood-Horse ARE reliable sources and can be used to establish notability, most of the articles cited basically say, “Some rich person bought an expensive horse on the advice of bloodstock agent Justin Casse. Then the horse won some races and a bunch of money.” But that’s his job. What about him as an individual is different from other bloodstock agents? With trainers or jockeys, our criteria is relatively straightforward, we assess things like the number of Grade I wins to show they are the best in their field. Here, we need sources to show that Casse is somehow better at what he does than the others. You have one or two sources that hint at this, but mostly they emphasize that he’s pretty young and off to a fast start, not that he has actually done BETTER than others. Examples of info to look for: Has he won industry awards? Is he closely associated with clients who won industry awards? (Such as Eclipse awards) Are there statistics that show that he has had some sort of better return on investment for his clients than most? The list of famous horses is of some help, except it’s way too long, for one thing, I would chop any horse that is not a GI winner or an Eclipse award winner or a record-holding champion of some sort. Montanabw^(talk) 17:18, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Montana, The Casse Family is very prominent in the business and articles about Justin Casse have flooded the above mentioned publications over the last 5 years. His list of clients that were mentioned on the page are some of the most notable in the industry and some have won eclipse awards. I know the page is littered with G1 winners sold, purchased and pinhooked, but of course as most of this is suitable within the professional world maybe it is of note on Wikipedia. I know somewhere Casse boasted about having transacted in $80+million in bloodstock sales on 4 different continents, and a 40+% ROI when pinhooking which seems lofty, and if you put those numbers up against the ones you would find on Bloodhorse databases, it seems to hold up, but that type of stuff also seems very promotional. Also, Ive google searched all other bloodstock agents and cannot find half as many articles as there are about Justin Casse. I believe I may not be able to fully fix this article on my own, would you mind helping me? Obviously your experience speaks for itself and I am more than willing to learn by example. Thank you so much for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ladyngetal (talk • contribs) 17:46, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep per the quality of horses he's dealing in. I'm not really familiar with bloodstock agents being separate from trainers and the racehorse people notability thing is kind of vague for non-trainers/jockeys (which could be fixed--remember when the equestrian one made it sound like nobody could be notable without an Olympic medal, leaving out all the people like Bud Dunn?). I don't think Ladyngetal is a single purpose account, either. White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 21:18, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep because he is becoming fairly well known in the US industry. Might suggest adding a paragraph or two explaining his job in a bit more detail, since we don't have a general article on the topic of bloodstock agent. Jlvsclrk (talk) 19:48, 25 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.