Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jun Hong Lu (2nd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. J04n(talk page) 13:20, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Jun Hong Lu[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Jun Hong Lu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Despite the extremely promotional content there is no indication that Jun Hong Lu is notable. There are no Google News hits. The only source that looks reliable at a glance is the Arab Telegraph, but at a closer look that publication does not seem reliable, and I couldn't find a masthead or an indication of editorial oversight. Huon (talk) 14:54, 19 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete I'm really not convinced this person is notable. Looking at the sources, most do not appear to be reliable/independent. Sro23 (talk) 20:45, 19 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete non-notable individual.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:00, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep he is a notable indivdual below are just few references i could find , he has been given lots of awards which may not be well covered and report by the press.
  • References, Furthermore, if you find it difficult to search anything on Jun Hong Lu on the internet, please try to search "Guan Yin Citta" which is foundered by Jun Hong Lu. Jun Hong Lu deserves a place in the Wikipedia. He is extremely well known especially for Buddhists in Asia among the Chinese speaking population. There is one official English website for his Dharma door which is guanyincitta.com.
  • Please review the followings as I strongly believe the page should not be nominated for deletion at all
  • New Release:
  1. Beverly Hills Courier- At Museum of Tolerance, Inter-Parliamentary Coalition for global ethics (IPCGE)- a worldwide peace organization awards its Inaugural Peace Prize to Three renowned recipients : Prof.Jun Hong Lu, Gerald Levin( Former CEO of Time Warner), Gianni Picco former UN Secretary General of the United Nations, Page 5,-Line 15,news title: Inter Parliamentary Coalition for global Ethics awards Inaugural Peace Prize. Link: https://issuu.com/bhcourier/docs/bhc050815 what is IPCGE: http://www.ipcge.org/index.php?en
  2. Arabic News Link: http://www.arabtelegraph.com/2014/05/22/4295/
  3. International Symposium on Cultural Diplomacy & Religion 2014-ICD "The Promotion of World Peace through Inter-Faith Dialogue & the Unity of Faiths”A Lecture by Master Jun Hong Lu (World Renowned Chinese Buddhist Leader) Link: http://www.cd-n.org/index.php?welcome-address-3 what is ICD: http://www.cd-n.org/index.php
  4. Television Interview: World renowned Chinese Buddhist Leader. Link : http://en.a9.com.tr/watch/185115/World-Leaders-Discuss-Peace-Religion-and-Politics/Master-Jun-Hong-Lu-World-Renowned-Chinese-Buddhist-Leader
  5. Justice of Peace On April 2016, Lu was awarded as Justice of Peace in New South Wales Australia. Registration No. 215281 Link: http://jp.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/public/welcomePublic.do (database you need to search the registration no. 215281)
  6. British Community Honours Awards Promoting community cohesion and social integration In October 2012, he received the 'British Community Honours Award' at the House of Lords, United Kingdom.[2] This award is recognised and honoured by Her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth II for members of the British Community for their contribution to British Society. Link: http://www.bcha.info/?s=LU+JUN+HONG Link: http://www.bcha.info/awards-events/bcha-awards-dinner-2012/
  7. The Denmark Royal Press Reporter Mr Peng: Reporting about Master Lu Link: http://loong.dk/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=34390 All the above references have been embedded into the article unfortunately the unwanted attention and vandalism have always come back and broke or delete the link which by the time you come across it may not be a whole picture. Hence the page should not be nominated for deletion at all.
  8. This person is a significant religious leader who was recently invited to the 2015 UN Vesak celebration sitting on the first row out of the attendance of 6000 people who are all Buddhist or religious leaders in one way or another. I managed to find a very bad imiage to support the claim on the vesak's offical website-- it is the 7th photo on this page http://www.undv.org/vesak2015/en/news_detail.php?id=125 and Lu is the person on the very right in the black suit.
  9. His English Subtitle programmes http://guanyincitta.com/en/multimedia-archive/compassion-of-a-bodhisattva-epitome-of-a-great-leader/
  10. His photo visiting the United Nations headquarters in New York City to speak at a Alliance of Civilizations (UNAOC) meeting Photo by Luiz Rampelotto/Pacific Press/ http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/487337034
  11. His English Subtitle Programmes ( from this video you can see hundred of thousands of his followers which definitely makes him notable) http://www.itunesmp3.mobi/mp3?id=TFVFNWVsRnZSVFU0UTBVPQ
Zyw333 (talk) 00:42, 21 June 2016 (UTC) — Zyw333 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • comment I have come across the followings which i believe would be relevant and reliable source.
I would appreciate if anyone understand Chinese and English at the same time, would easily come across tons of news, posting, comments about Guan YIn Citta Dharma Door and Jun Hong Lu himself. there are lots of people out there in world who has made a great contribution to the communities and society but did not get too much exposure to the media either by self preservation or other reasons and that is the whole point someone needs to present them in a platform like Wikipedia to the public. hope what i found could improve the page. Thansk !Zyw333 (talk) 20:04, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Thank you for your time and attention depsite someone still has no clue above ,this is a discussion board about should we keep this page or not based on whether jun hong lu is a notable person NOT ABOUT HOW CHINESE OR any authorities perceive jun hong lu and his charity organisaiton, HENCE we need to give an opinion . Would you please make sure whoever written on here knows WHAT ON EARTH they are doing, We are here not to discuss about how Chinese government hates/ like jun hong lu and his charity organissaton, not about CULT as i repeated above no such thing in western countries, As you can see there has been enough attention and discussion about jun hong lu's orgnissation activities eithetr it has been adored or discredit by others, He deserve a page in here. Please let me know if there is any necessary to relist all the sources above. Thank you very much for your effort.Zyw333 (talk) 18:44, 4 July 2016 (UTC) — Duplicate vote: Zyw333 (talk • contribs) has already cast a vote above. — Zyw333 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Grahame (talk) 05:23, 21 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment for someone based in Australia he gets zero coverage in major news sources like Sydney Morning Herald or ABC Australia. LibStar (talk) 09:39, 21 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete fails WP:BIO. complete lack of Australian sources for someone based in Australia. Many of the sources cited are passing mentions. Serious COI concerns here indicating self promotion. LibStar (talk) 11:19, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep He is a famous Buddhist Master among the chinese community over the world.I have found reliable organisation reporting Lu Jun Hong activities (not from the own event organiser). http://www.cd-n.org/index.php?welcome-address-3 There is downloadable brochure on the right of the link, which shows his meetings with the famous Pope Francis and other world religious leaders (March 31st - April 3rd, 2014)(Page 22). Therefore, I believe that he is notable individual — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yuuuu1000 (talk • contribs) 11:07, 21 June 2016 — Yuuuu1000 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
funny that this is your first ever edit. LibStar (talk) 04:41, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment in my experience in wikipedia the swarming of an AfD by several single purpose editors not only indicates conflict of interest but also a lack of notability. LibStar (talk) 04:41, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and Revise Mr. Jun Hong Lu has a large number of followers from various countries especially these Chinese origin. He mainly concentrated on Chinese traditional culture and Chinese Buddhism.
  • As per below links of which reflect his achievements and fit into Wikipedia's criteria. In the last several years, Mr.Jun Hong Lu has been making an impact and making an effort to promote World peace and Culture exchange, how to practise Traditional Chinese Buddhist in modern society. Below are a few selection of the resources for your reference.
  • He is the founder of Guan Yin Citta Dharma DoorLink http://guanyincitta.com/en/world-stage/ which qualified that "The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique"
  • Below are Chinese Media News about Jun Hong Lu.
  1. Chines People's political Consultative Conference Newspaper-official Chinese State Newspaper. write an article http://epaper.rmzxb.com/search.aspx?type=2&keyword=卢军宏&paperType=rmzxb
  2. 163.com is a reputable website in China and around the world-they published an article about Jun Hong Lu spares no effort promoting Traditional Chinese Buddhism.http://news.163.com/12/0403/01/7U4KJE1F00014JB6.html
  3. English Source APECF-This is a non profit organisation founded by dignitaries, renowned scholars, social activists, internationally influential enterprises, and research institutes in the Asia-Pacific region. The foundation engages in extensive and constructive communication and cooperation with many other organisations in the region.http://www.apecf.org/en/foundationnews/20150504.html Topic: Dialogue Among Civilisations, Promote World Peace 3rd Paragraph- Jun Hong Lu -Vice president of Asia-Pacific Information and Media Union, spoke about the subject. Ed Royce, Chairman of the U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs, Bob Huff, senator of California, and Michael D. Antonovich, Los Angeles County Supervisor, presented an award to Mr. Xiao Wunan for his dedication to Sino- US relations.
  4. China Overseas: http://www.chinaoverseas.org/show.asp?id=7017
  5. CHINA TV MEDIA GROUP USA INC has reported about the above event and uploaded onto Youtube on about 00:30 Jun Hong Lu was giving a speech. China TV Media Group interview
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Maggiejhan (talk • contribs) 09:40, 23 June 2016 — Maggiejhan (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Keep and Revise I appreciate the editors who have been working on this page. In the event that there is no consensus and that this page is kept, the sources that I have added are all the official news press release from the various provincial government in China and the central government in Chinahttp://www.gov.cn/xinwen/2014-06/13/content_2700277.htm. If you should consider that the China Government's press releases are unreliable sources, then I will suggest that this page should be deleted because it is only representing biased information about Lu Jun Hong, even though his cult is already considered illegal in China. This is evident from the fact that the so-called buddhist master has never went to China for a single event, and that all the social media webpages related to Guanyin CItta and Lu Junhong cannot feature any parts of these names in the social media groups — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ccctttttt (talk • contribs) 11:28, 26 June 2016 (UTC) — Ccctttttt (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Keep and Revise Readers should be given an opportunity to learn that there are controversies surrounding Lu instead of presented with promotional materials. I have done my best to use sources from experts on the subject matter which in my personal opinion are better than news reports made by reporters who are not experts in the issue. I further iterate that the controversy should be included as the topic is on Lu, even if he is only having issues in China, Malaysia and Singapore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ccctttttt (talk • contribs) 09:48, 5 July 2016 (UTC) — Duplicate vote: Ccctttttt (talk • contribs) has already cast a vote above. — Ccctttttt (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Delete as examining this found, of course, the noticeable amount of sources, but it's the information that is particularly not convincing for notability. None of it balances to suggest he's actually notable for any of that thus delete. SwisterTwister talk 18:46, 26 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment I understand and appreciate you went a great length to find all the sources just right on the 7th day since the page been nominated for deletion, since you have referenced a lot sources in Chinese then you must will not miss the fact that the reason why there is no a single event in Main land China not because it is illegal. It is because China first of all at the moment is not a very religious country and secondly does not allow big public gathering according to the law, BUT THERE ARE MASSIVE EVENTS IN HONG KONG every year WHERE is also part of China!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cca0vGIFXec Jun hong lu never claimed he is any Buddhar representative, only some of his followers claimed he is which to be fair is really our of his control. He and his charity organisation devoting themselves to promote world peace and Chinese culture exchange and that is why he been honoured so many awards in US, UK and been invited by UN as all the sources provided and trying to approve so far. NOT AN ARTICEL TO APPROVE IF THE BUDDHISM HE TAUGHT IS THE TRUE AND MOST orthodox ONE WHICH ALL YOUR EDITING IS ABOUT . All the references you quoted is all about criticising his teaching in buddhism but NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS EFFORT TO PROMOTE WORLD PEACE.He is an Austrilian Citizen, It should be a free world for people to believe in whatever they want to and follow whoever they like to regardless how the other organizations comment about him and his teaching and should not be criticised only certain organisations have a different opinion. Thank you for your advice and i am sure people who work on this page will keep your opinion considered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zyw333 (talk • contribs) 23:33, 26 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment I guess you do not understand Chinese then. Let me translate the first article for you. The first article is a press release from the State Administration for Religious Affairs for P.R.C.
We don't need to include a full translation transcribed here. It may even present copyright problems. Hatting for now, but may have to be removed
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Recently, I received several calls from some Buddhists, informing that they had friends and relatives believing in Guan Yin Citta, some even went overseas to participate in major events organised by Guan Yin Citta. Based on the responses, the Australia based Chinese creator of Guan Yin Citta, Lu Jun Hong, self proclaims to be a representative of Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara (Guan Yin), and frequently uses "Totem Reading" to tell fortunes and avert disasters. According to some rumor, there are famous venerable receiving tutelage under Lu Jun Hong, learning Guan Yin Citta. Thus, the believers asked if Lu Jun Hong is really a representation for Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara, and if "totem reading" conforms to Buddhist teachings.
  • After receiving the responses from the believers, I considered the questions with high priority. Through intensive research, my responses to the relevant questions are as follows:
  • 1. Through the history of China, there are indeed reputable venerable who were regarded as reincarnates of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. However, these occur after the venerable passed away, and through their deeds and teachings, they were believed to be reincarnates. There has never been a case where a reputable venerable openly mentions that he is a reincarnate or representative of any Bodhisattva.
  • 2. The so-called "totem reading", according to Guan Yin Citta, refers to an animalistic totem representing us in the heavens. Through observing these totems, we will be able to tell the fortune of that person. In Buddhist sutra and teachings, there has never been any sayings resembling "totem reading". Astrology, palmistry and face reading, divination etc are all considered to be unorthodox, and are prohibited by Buddhist teachings.
  • 3. Although Guan Yin Citta uses concepts and theories used by Buddhists, the understanding of these are superficial and self-interpreted. Even basic concepts such as "five senses", "twelve links of dependent origination" etc, were given twisted explanations and are completely different from Buddhist teachings.
  • As for the rumor regarding reputable venerable receiving tutelage from Lu Jun Hong, I'd say it deviates from Buddhist teachings and traditions.
  • Next, according to some reports, before Guan Yin Citta organised some major activities in Malaysia and Singapore during March this year (2014), 11 major Buddhist organisations has jointly made a press release, pointing out that Guan Yin Citta is a Buddhist associated cult, and not orthodox Buddhism, reminding believers not to be cheated by them. From this, we see that the international buddhist community has a common understanding that Guan Yin Citta does not conform to Buddhist teachings.
  • From our understanding, Guan Yin Citta has also conducted various illegal major activities and illegal soliciting in China as well.
  • I beseech all provincial Buddhist federations and temples across the country to conduct more activities to teach the public and local Buddhists to be more patriotic and interested in learning, right belief and right actions, raise greater self awareness to oppose the wrong influences from Guan Yin Citta. I will also remind all Buddhists to learn from Buddhists community with the right belief and right actions, increase their ability to differentiate rights from wrongs, in order not to be cheated.
  • The above is a direct translation from the article. Anyone who is well versed in Chinese can feel free see if I have mistranslated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.92.124.221 (talk) 08:25, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment FIRST OF ALL, we are here to discuss whether Jun hong lu is a notable person to deserve a page on Wikipedia NOT about the Buddhism he teached is recognised by some and/or Chinese authorities or any authorities in the world. Please keep focus on this.
  • Then like I mentioned above if you read carefully, he has never claimed he is the representation of Bodhisattva if his followers believed he is there is nothing he can do about it.
  • Secondly, if you really Passionate about how the Chinese think about Jun Hong Lu. People's Daily https://issuu.com/peopledailyuk/docs/19a01-20 part 1- Page 19 With Picture wrote an article about him endorse him for all his achievements and awards. People's Daily is the state owned and run Newspaper earns more authority than any of your reference quoted. Jun Hong lu is having another Grand Dharma Talk in Hong Kong 3rd July 16. I believe no one would have any objections about HK is part of China! and if the Chinese authorities had any issues with the up coming events, they would have prohibited it by now but so far everything is going as planned , you could participate too as it is free administration as you went great length finding about all the sources. it is the time to see it yourself !
  • Thirdly Please do remember he is Australian who can speak Chinese. He and his organisation promoting world peace and Traditional Chinese Culture not solely Buddhism Teaching like other practical monks. IF anyone have been living in WESTERN COUNTRIES LONG ENOUGH, they would understand and appreciate there is no such CULT exist. People has the liberty to believe whatever they want and follow whoever they want to. If according to your research that Guan Yin Citta is not well recognised by some of the Chinese authorities at the moment and make it as cult, then Dalai Lama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama's page should definitely get your attention and should be clearly removed as per BBC Chinese News http://news.bbc.co.uk/chinese/simp/hi/newsid_1340000/newsid_1348100/1348140.stm said i quote Dalai Lama engaged in activities to split Tibet from China and been exiled ever since.
  • Finally whatever Buddhism jun hong lu has been teaching is not a reason for him not having a page on Wikipedia, He and his organisations has been gaining a place on the International Stage and soon would be more recognised by public medias, I would appreciate if the administrator would give another though about this page and should definitely not be deleted.Many thanks Zyw333 (talk) 20:20, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Firstly, if you thread carefully,I did not suggest delete the page. I only said it should be considered to be deleted if the followers of Lu do not allow a fair opinion of him.
  • Secondly, I'm not sure what you mean by the newspaper you have quoted is more credible than the Chinese government itself.
  • Thirdly, there were many occasions where Lu speak of Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara speaking through him, which clearly implies he is a representative of Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara, which is a blasphemy as far as Buddhist teachings are concerned, and many occasions where the public called him a reincarnate and he did not dispel those as wrong either. These are the very behaviors which, according to the Buddha, are acts of the devil, and according to Chinese government, an evil religious organisation.
  • Like I said, my reference are all spokesmen if the government and not just a subsidiary of a newspaper. If you wish to question my sources, then can you explain why are the so-called acclaimed awards that is received only reported in some doubtful Arabian newspapers and not found in UN reports or European/American newspapers?
  • Even if I'm doubtful of your information, I'll not delete any information you have given. So please respect my information and note that these informations ate given by the government. I know hong kong is a special administration region, and the main government is only responsible if it's defence and foreign policy.that's the only reason why lu can still have activities in Hong Kong but not in any provinces of China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ccctttttt (talk • contribs) 09:23, 30 June 2016


  • Keep. I consider theChinese source translated above as sufficient evidence for notability , along with the supporting material. DGG ( talk ) 14:58, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I'm sure that a relisting is not what anybody wants here, but given this went to a no consensus last time, and given User:DGG's late contribution, I feel it would be inappropriate and controversial to take the decision to delete without clearer consensus. KaisaL (talk) 00:57, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, KaisaL (talk) 00:57, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:58, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Buddhism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:58, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as enough coverage in reliable sources have been identified for WP:BASIC to bemet Atlantic306 (talk) 00:02, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep only because I also believe the one translated source may be enough for now. SwisterTwister talk 07:48, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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